shameful crime against humanity

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Topic: ''shameful crime against humanity"

''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/20/03 at 16:17:20 »

US attack on Iraq is a shameful crime against humanity !Mr.Bush and British Prime Minister have simply gone mad -people with a little common sense will find it very difficult to digest that .

Incidental
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/21/03 at 16:11:32 »

Dont worry... Allah will interfare. The Devils will be driven to death. They r not aware of the truth

Prasenjit Biswas
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/22/03 at 02:40:39 »

Why Allah alone? Why not Brahman or Lord rama? In such an hour of crisis how dare you banter the name of the god, who all are one and same to every saqne citizen of the world? Or your subconscious is too full of rama vs. Allah and Christ vs. allah canards? Would you clarify? may I also remind you trhat its not merely an attack on america but an attack on humanity. Your incidental ways wont take you anywhere except repeating the same old signifier of debunking that you possibly mouth with a streak of communal passion. Whyn't VHP wallahs say anything against US? Where is Mr.Modi, the dreaded Christian and Muslim baiter? He must be thinking that he should not enter into christan vs Muslim fight. this is how thw narrow minded breed of Hindutva inspired people would think.

confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/22/03 at 23:30:00 »

Attack against America? Did you mean Iraq? I think Mr. Bush has taken an noble undertaking to overthrow the dictator. He is completing the task his dad should have, a decade ago. Argument is that Iraqi people should have the right to overthrow a regime. But in the current dictatorship they do not have that power.

Prasenjit Biswas
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/25/03 at 01:58:42 »

Yes confusion is better just as right ot overthrow could be given onto somebody else on behalf of somebody. may I know which section of the Iraqi people and which section of the people of the world considered American aggression as the justful means of overthrowing the dictator? When UN couldn't stop america from attacking Iraq, who now will have the right to overthrow Bush? actually it is the tendency to take the side of the power that inverts the perception on the powerless such that it thinks an-other power is better than one's own capacity.

Ram-Allah-God
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/25/03 at 15:13:22 »

Suddenly, the government of the United States has discovered the virtues of international law. It may be waging an illegal war against a sovereign state, it may be seeking to destroy every treaty which impedes its attempts to run the world, but when five of its captured soldiers were paraded in front of the Iraqi television cameras on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, immediately complained that "it is against the Geneva convention to show photographs of prisoners of war in a manner that is humiliating for them".

He is, of course, quite right. Article 13 of the third convention, concerning the treatment of prisoners, insists that they "must at all times be protected... against insults and public curiosity". This may number among the less heinous of the possible infringements of the laws of war, but the conventions, ratified by Iraq in 1956, are non-negotiable. If you break them, you should expect to be prosecuted for war crimes.

What about Guantanamo bay ? The US government claims that those men are not subject to the Geneva conventions, as they are not "prisoners of war", but "unlawful combatants". The same claim could be made, with rather more justice, by the Iraqis holding the US soldiers who illegally invaded their country.

Did someone say Hiroshima Nagasaki ? Vietnam and napam bombs..oh pardon me they are history!

Too nice to enjoy in latest LCD flat monitors the high tech destructions (whether they help in minimising civilian casualities or not is a different point), quite a moment to relax in cosy comfort of drawing room while enjoying the scenes on how your smart bombs are smashing every single houses. Should'nt hurt when you see your own people captured..

AB_DC
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/26/03 at 10:42:19 »

As I was watching the live coverage of the war glorified by the American propoganda media including CNN , CSNBC , ABC , Fox and others , lots of questions raised in my mind. How bad a guy is Saddam Hussein ? How is he a threat to others ? What does the US and the UK gain from removing him ? How is he tied to the terrorist groups ? How great people Bush and Blair are , that their hearts are touched by the sufferings of the Iraqi people under Saddam's regime ? As an Indian and as a human being , should I feel happy or sad after Bush , Blair and Co. destroy Baghdad and put a pro American administration in the line of Hamid Karzai in Afganistan. How could the war take place without UN's consent ? How would Iraq look like after the war ? Answers are very obvious if you listen to Bush's address or stay tuned to CNN.
Unfortunately , through the media dominated by the West (read America and Britain) we get to see only one side of the coin.

The western media conveniently suppreses the better part of Saddam Hussein , exposing his ugly face and portraying him as a villain. But as a matter of fact , Saddam Hussein's Iraq is (was) the only forward looking and religiously tolerent nation in the whole of it's neighbourhood. It's the only secular country in the whole region in sharp contrast to radically fundamentalist islamic nations like neighbouring Iran. Saddam had earned awards from the United Nations back in seventies or early eighties for his initiative to modernize Iraq including rights for women (very uncommon in most of the arab countries) , free education(including adult education) and health care for all. He is not the only dictator in the middle east . The socalled allies of the US including Saudi Arabia , Kuwait , Qatar and Jordan are all ruled by dynastic rulers with medieval ethos. It is very much understandable why Saddam Hussein is singled out as a tyranical dictator from the whole lot although he is not a dynastic ruler.

Saddam's Iraq is accused of invading it's neighbours. One should not forget that one of it's neighbours was Iran ruled by Ayatollah Khomeini who was a relegious revolutionary , educated in theological schools and brought about a revolution that swept away secular rule and and the laws of men, replacing them with clerical rule and the laws of God. He declared Iran as an islamic country and declared himself as the supreme authority . Ayatollah was getting increasingly popular , using islam as an instrument to bind all muslims in the region. His ideology was spreading like a virus and lots of people (mostly shias) in Iraq were falling prey to his relegious appeal. It was a threat to liberal Saddam as well to the western world who were supporting Iraq in it's war against Iran. Iraq did invade Iran , but with US and British backing.
The second country that Iraq invaded was Kuwait. Iraq had some disputes with Kuwait. It is believed (but hardly revealed by wetern media ) that US itself enouraged Iraq of Kuwat invasion and assured it of support in case of such an event. The US turned around when he actually did it and proved itself to be the survivour of Kuwait. Before invaing Kuwait , Saddam had also used nerve gas against the militant Kurds in the northern part of Iraq. That killed several civilians and innocent people. The weapons that Saddam used against the Kurds were supplied by the US. The same weapons are today an issue for this war.
Saddam's Indian connection:
One would wonder how come Saddam's eldest son's name is Uday and the name of one of his daughters is Rana which sound so Indian . Saddam is a great admirer of India and her culture , tradition , history and civilization. He named his kids after the famous Rajput kings in India (that too hindu kings during Mughal rule). The only countries in the middle east that supported India throughout during our dispute with Pakistan.One is Afganistan (pre taliban) and the other one is Iraq. Saddam outrightly refused to buy any Pakistani propoganda against India , using Islam as an instrument to gain support.
The second issue is Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction , sounds so ironic when countries like the US and UK talk about that. Even a kid knows which country in the world has got the cruelest weapons of mass destruction. They talk about the potential threat of those weapons being used. Even a sixth standard kid read in History who had used the worst weapons of mass destruction against Japan destroying the beautiful cities of Hirosima and Nagasiki. Those bombs were not dropped by any dictator , but by a country that claims itself as the father of freedom and democracy. The bombs were dropped even after Japan declared to surrender folowing the surrender of it's ally Germany. the Americans conveniently mis-translated the Japaneese word for "surrender" to "no surrender".
Efforts are being made to establish a link between Saddam and terrorist organizations like Al Queda. We as Indians will find it funny when such allegations are made keeping in mind that Pakistan is still a loyal allay of the US. They have found some activities of a terrorist unit in the northern part of Iraq. That doesn't mean Saddam having ties with the terrorists. It's quite the opposite .Saddam's rebels are tied to those groups to get rid of Saddam. If the jehadi organizations can make a safe heaven in Iraq , that would be of serious threat to Saddam and Saddam knows that very well. Only common element between the Al Queda type organizations and Saddam is the common hatred for the US and Israel , but the ideologies are totally different. Even Laden wouldn't associate himself with Saddam as he would consider Saddam as an evil muslim. Saddam had refused to condemn Osama after world trade center attack , but that wouldn't mean that he was involved himself. The reaction was quite obvious . Would you like to wipe the tears of those who had themselves brought tears to your eyes ?
The propoganda that the US spread about Iraqi people dying to get rid of Saddam is also proving wrong. Infact that propoganda has backfired the coalition forces in their preparation for the war. There was not a single evidence of the civilian population welcoming the allied forces , even though they know that Saddam won't be there to take revenge on them. Saddam had been brutal to the rebels and dissidents , but the mass still consider him as their leader.
We had always condemned our polititians trying to get political mileage out of tragedies . Bush to unlogo ka baap nikla. The way he played with the emotions of American citizens to defend his policies was very much noticeable. He tried his level best to prove this war as a part of war against terrorism. We Indians think that our politians gain from the ignorance of a huge majority of our population. That way America is no different , only the extent varies .We have rickshaw wallas and thela wallas who are most likely to be provoked. They have people carrying cell phones and hanging out in night clubs whom if you ask which are the two countries sharing borders with USA , they might answer "Spain and Europe". It is very much possible for them to believe that Saddam was involved in the trade center attacks. Bush had been successful to convince his ignorant people that the whole thirld world countries are terrorist sympathisers and are save heavens of the terrorists and he would take them up one by one. Iraq is just the begining . North Korea , Iran , Cuba and the Phillipines are there in the list. China is too powerful to be attacked , but they also should get the message and learn a lesson.
Bush openly says that UN has failed to act and that's why he would act unilaterally with his best pet Blair being by his side. The authority of the UN was questioned and he sent a message to the whole world that the UN doesn't have any relevance. We know that the UN doesn't have any relevance , but for a totally different reason. The US had used the UN in the past as if it is were an extention to the State department of US. The UN will regain it's relevance once it's head quarters are shifted to Asia or Africa and the permanent members of the security council are dissmissed. The only good trend that we could see was one time ally France boldly opposing the US autocracy. It's time that France , Germany and Russia should ally with other european countries (excluding Britain) to form an alternative pole to the otherwise unipolar world. The european population is increasingly becoming anti US . German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder won the recent elections only by taking advantage of the anti US sentiments of a huge majority of the German population. Opposition to any war against Iraq had brought him to power.
Once the war is over , the US will definitely go back to the UN asking it to clean up the mess. The big economies like Japan , Germany and France should refuse to take part in cleaning up operation and rebuilding Iraq. Those who had created the mess should clean up the mess themselves. In the name of rebuilding Iraq , they would put American corporations in control of the Iraqi oil . They would say that the productivity will increase by the eforts put by the multinational companies and that would help Iraq's economy. Corporate America would gain and Bush would be able to keep his promise of bringing US economy back to shape. He would be able to answer his people that the economy didn't suffer because of the war.
The messages that the US will give to the world without uttering a single word are : Any country that is anti American , be careful. Canada and Mexico , don't think that you would be spared for not showing support . China should understand that we can attack anybody and stop selling weapons to our enemies. We can , however sell weapons to whichever country we want , because we also know how to get rid of those weapons when they conflict our interest ; take Iraq's example. America wouldn't have been what it is now , if it didn't police the world. We would choose to kill innocent them rather than leaving a chance for them to kill innocent us. India , don't take it as a precedence to get rid of Musharraf and destroy terror networks in Pakistan ; you cannot afford to go against us. We only have the right to take unilateral actions because we are the might and might is always right.
Since we (the rest of the World excuding Britain) cannot go against the might , we should come up with some innovative ideas like giving Nobel peace prizes to the likes of Monica Lewinsky , Paula Jones and Marilyn Monroe. They are the ones who can keep the American presidents busy , thus keeping the world safe. Someone should also take the charge of keeping the British prime minister busy.

asiti
asiti

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/26/03 at 11:44:08 »

Thank you very much AB_DC.

It is a very very well thought and analytical write up.

A thirteenth Century sage in Japan said that the night is the darkest before dawn. On that line, let us all have the hope and prayer that the war ends first.

The evil will be ousted. May it be Saddam or Bush or Blair. May be this is the omen that the powerless and spineless UN would be revamped.

The American filmsy bravery and computerised intelligence [please see in many many movies] is well known and well described by AB_DC in terms of naming the bordering countries. It is amazing that a nation which is more than 200 years old shivers in sheer paranoia. Their super accurate missiles are falling here and there like misfired Diwali rockets. The CIA and FBI along with many peripherals could not capture Osama..I guess our Delhi police, given the chance and the gadgets, could have done better.

However, my ridiculing the American [sorry, not all the American, I am only talking about the typical Bush type] intellect or sense of humanity is not going to change anything. It is our hope and goodwill that is going to change the world for better. May be this is the beginning.

batti-oloi
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/26/03 at 13:26:08 »

Read somewhere - if Saddam was selling bananas instead of oil, US would not have attacked Iraq.

asiti
asiti

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/27/03 at 12:54:01 »

You are correct.

If Bush and Blair had concern for peace, they would have engaged Saddam in a dialogue. In the 21st Century no other power..Economical or Military or Political ..would work. This is the Century of SOFT POWER, the power of dialogue and culture. The soft power and the unfailing formula for peace is given by one of the greatest man this world has so far..Dr. Daisaku Ikeda, the President of Soka Gakkai International. Yesterday's [26th March]Times Of India, the editorial page, speaking tree section, he again talks about that.

confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/27/03 at 12:55:16 »

I would recommend some typing lessons for Prasenjit. Taking lessons from AB_DC may be a better place to start. It it deed was a well written article. However, I regret I can not see eye to eye with him in all issues. Especially on reason why the French and Russians are critical of US. They are merely doing so to protect their own interest. Russians have a big investment in Iraq'a war machine and so does the French. That is the principal reason and should not be confused as a philanthropic gesture towards the pepople Iraq. US did support Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. But it was more like choosing beteen a lesser evil. I am sure they did provide any weapon to be used against Iraqi people. It is interesting to note here that when Iraq started it's nuclear program, it was Frence that provided the support. It is good that Isralies had the presence of mind to take a preemptive action. I wish Indian leaders had balls to do the same with Pakistan.
Oil definitely plays a part in this war. But I think Bush makes a good point when he says that the cost of inaction today could be more tomorrow. If you look at this war from American point of view, it is good for them.
I think my country, India should also take a stand that suits its national interest. Rather than aligning with some stupid non aligned movement.
Also, it is stupid to judge Americans just by watching Jay-walk or Jerry Spinger show. Listen to NPR. You will change your view.

Ram-Allah-God
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/27/03 at 16:18:57 »

What a paradox !! kill innocent people to avoid them being killed by Saddam? And anyway, USA is known to be the Nation with the most weapons of mass destruction in the world. Why doesn't anyone disarm America?

I am a H1 Visa holder, working in Us, I have participated in the massive anti war rally in Sanfrancisco this february end. Almost, half a million people marched through the market street to the city hall and all agreed on " Drop Bush, Not Bombs"
Before this war started a Taxi driver said to me " when you go back to India, tell them that not all americans are bad.. we donot want this war.."

Us now prefers to call French Fries as "Freedom Fries"
Wonder what would they do with the Statue of liberty which was gifted by France..!!

And, Mr confused, if intolerence runs in everyones blood, urging them to do preemptive strikes, the world would be littered with skulls only.. and then you might also lose the previlege of making such honoured nazi like statements from your drawing room..

nitaipil1
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/27/03 at 19:09:31 »

Feeding the hungry is a greater work than raising the dead

asiti
asiti

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/28/03 at 14:09:13 »

Did any one of you see the movie called "CHINA GATE" starring Om Puri, Naseeruddin, Mukesh Tewari etc. ?

Do you remember, Jagira, talking to the vultures, coaxing them to wait for the execution of the victim?

A considerable number of American companies filed their tenders for getting contracts for RECONSTRUCTION, FEEDING, Port Management etc.

Reminds me of Jagira and the vultures in CHINA GATE.

By the way, do you also remember the ending of the movie? The same thing is going to happen? I mean the role of the vultures [ not shown in the movie, but understood from Om Puri's dialogue]?

Life
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/28/03 at 14:40:16 »

Well said Asiti.. good analogy !!

Read on UK's leading news paper about
British anger as port contract goes to US firm rather than to locals

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,924421,00.html

also Bush's defence adviser quits in row over conflict of interest over his corporate connections.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,924557,00.html

imran
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/28/03 at 16:50:18 »

There has never been a time when you and I have not existed, nor will there be a time when we will cease to exist. As the same person inhabits the body through childhood, youth, and old age, so too at the time of death he attains another body. The wise are not deluded by these changes.

osho
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/28/03 at 16:57:04 »

In the sex war, thoughtlessness is the weapon of the male, vindictiveness of the female.

Confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/29/03 at 10:14:33 »

Dear R-A-G, why do I get a feeling that A is more stronger in your prayer? Great thing about America is that you are free to participate in a anti government movement even though you are a foreigher. Same is true for our country too. But I really have to worry about your back side if you decice to leave the luxery of your living room in America and decide to protest in streets of Bagdad (Ofcourse before Marines kick Saddam's ass). May be to protest against Saddam's atrocities. His republican guard by the way, specialises in rape and mideval torturing. Now go ahead and tell me that is another western propaganda. How about going to Beijing and trying to do the same?
Unfortunately, anything nationalistic sounds like "Nazi" to you.

Confucious
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"Shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/29/03 at 12:23:58 »

Dear Confused,
Just as in a pond the big fish survives by eating the smaller fish, similarly in this dunia, the BIG BROTHER(ref George Orwell's 1984) survives on the SMALLER one. :) :) :)
Yours,
Confucious
:) :) :)

Ram-Allah-God
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/29/03 at 16:00:25 »

[quote author=Confused link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#17 date=03/29/03 at 10:14:33]
Dear R-A-G, why do I get a feeling that A is more stronger in your prayer? [/quote]

Mr confused has shown his true class in his comments..

PS: Few days ago we went to celebrate Holi here in the Sunnyvale Temple..., in the informal friends gathering everyone of us criticised the war..
Mr confused , 'Innocents' are dying in this War. Religion is no issue here.. Try to rise ahead from your narrow vision.

Amit
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/29/03 at 16:51:33 »

US and UK has killed several hundreds of innocent civilians till date with their high tech bombs..
My question is, Did anyone even bothered to ask the Iraqi people if they wanted to be 'liberated'?
And did the majority of the Iraqi people (isn't this the democratic way?) give their consent to this invasion?

If Iraqis are really suffering under the Saddam government,why are there still many Iraqi army (most of them are citizen) fighting against US and UK army?
And if UK and US are the saviour, why citizens in every cities, didn't show their welcome as they (army) passed by ?

Love your government or hate your government there are few people who will not defend their own country from invasion.
Unfortunately, the freedom many Iraqi people are likely to receive is that of the grave.

Also, Mr "Confused" Soul, what do you think is the Religion of Billions of common people who had marched in protest of this war in the streets of London, New York, Sydney, Paris, Barcilona, Tokyo, Seoul etc ???

Why didn't you volunteer to join US army and go to war?
It's easy to be a warrior from your living room! I would like to see you when you hear an air raid siren, or cruise missiles flying over your head! It's really sad when you support killing in any way!

swapandey
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/29/03 at 17:00:15 »

I think Harendra Paul is more active than United Nation!UN is going to be good for nothing!

confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/31/03 at 00:24:46 »

So who is showing true color now? R-A-G was not good enough for you! You need a new name "Amit" too! V-E-R-Y Interesting.

I never volunteered to be a mercenary for anyone. If I have to fight, I sure will do that for India. Infact, I do have some military training.

All I am saying that, this war is not necessarily bad for India. so stop whining. If after the war oil price drops than it helps us too. Besides, the civilian casualities are much less in this war.

Protest in west are resulting as a concern for their loved one dying in war. It is not not a good feeling to receive some one you love in a body bag. You will see, most people who participate in these rallys are those who has someone in army. But ofcourse you are special. You are worried about your muslim brothers in Iraq.

When it comes to fierce fighting of Iraqis, remember that the current regime is extremely brutal to traitors. One Iraqi general once defected to west. Saddam's militia sent him a video tape containing a brutal rape of one of his relatives.
Also some of those in republican gard is already in the allied list for atrocities comitted a decade ago. So even if they surrender they face trial. So, it is no wonder that some of them will put a fierce resistance.

I am not sure if you are aware or not, in Basra, a Iraqi woman was found hanged after she waved at the British army. Prospect of such pursecution is holding ordinary Iraqi people back from welcoming allied army.

Ram-Allah-God
Guest

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/31/03 at 16:10:28 »

[quote author=confused link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#22 date=03/31/03 at 00:24:46]
Protest in west are resulting as a concern for their loved one dying in war. It is not not a good feeling to receive some one you love in a body bag. You will see, most people who participate in these rallys are those who has someone in army. But ofcourse you are special. You are worried about your muslim brothers in Iraq.

[/quote]

There is no use arguing with a communal beast like u..

Protest accross the WORLD are against the shameful crime against humanity.
You say, "whoever went to the protest had someone in the Army!!"
What about billions of common men protesting in Tokyo, Berlin, Paris, Geneva, Rome, Milan ?

I am a Hindu, and I went to protest 'coz my inner self asked me to do so..
I am not born to think like that "Muslims are dying.. so I will not go.."

Your narrow minded communal nature forces you to think like that.
The poison of communalism would never go away from people like you, tomorrow if you are reborn as a Muslim, you will say "Hindus are dying so I will not go.."
Nothing and Nobody can change your attitude..Stay like that and watch how the World reacts.. All the best.

silcharite from usa
Guest

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 03/31/03 at 22:58:40 »

copy from new york times:
'Shame on you, Mr Bush!'

Arthur J Pais | March 24, 2003 13:52 IST

Michael Moore, who received a standing ovation at the 75th Annual Academy Awards when his documentary film Bowling For Columbine won the award, suddenly faced boos when he launched into a blistering attack on President George W Bush.

But the combatative filmmaker-writer, whose hit film (worldwide gross $40 million) examines American obsession with violence, could not be stopped.

Moore, who invited other documentary nominees to the podium, began by saying he wanted to honour them too because they dealt with the real world. But the world we are living in, he said, is fictitious. America has had a fictitious election, he said, as the boos began. And there is a fictitious president, he continued.

"We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons," he said, his voice soaring. "Whether it is the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts, we are against this war, Mr Bush. Shame on you, Mr Bush!"

Politics was never away from the day's proceedings but many other filmmakers and artistes invoked peace with grace. In fact, one of them -- surprise winner Adrien Brody for The Pianist -- got a standing ovation when he invoked God and Allah to bring about peace.

Brody, who plays a survivor of Nazi atrocities in Poland, said as he remembered the creation of the film, he also thought about the war in Iraq. He said his experiences while working on the film and researching for it had made him "very aware of the sadness" war causes. "Let's pray for a peaceful and swift resolution," he said.

Pedro Almodovar, fabled Spanish writer and director who won Best Original Script Award for his unusual, psychological love story Talk To Her, called for "international legality" and hoped for peace. Almodovar, whose film received major awards in Europe, where it grossed $40 million ($6 million in America), had called for peace in Iraq at other award ceremonies, too.

Gael Garcia Bernal, the popular Latin American star, whose hits include Y Tu Mama Tambien (which was nominated in the script category) and El Crimen Del Padre Amaro (Best Foreign Film nominee), said, "Necessity for peace in the world is not a dream but reality."

Bernal, who had introduced a song from the movie Frida, said if the radical painter Frida Kahlo had lived, she would be "outside" protesting against war.

confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/01/03 at 11:00:57 »

Flame war between is taking a very good shape. But why don't you reply to my arguments rather than abusing me? I never said I am secular. I do believe in Hindu nationalism. You are right, my true color is saffron. Now to mullahs like you I am nazi/communal etc. But who cares. All you care is circumcised bretheren in Iraq. When Hindus are lines and shot like cowards, women are assaulted, you look the other way.
No war is good. Quoting the ex-president Bill Clinton "Violence is not good. But sometimes that is the only solution".
But if somebody is doing some dirty work for you why should you care? In the long run this is going to benefit us.

Immediat affect will be oil price. Once the war is over it will definitely go down.
During reconstruction of Iraq, India will play a definite part which is good for Indian companies.
If you see the bigger picture, this war is Bush administrations way of changing some equation in the middle east. Current Iraqi regime has links with some terrorist groups in Palestine. Who in turn has sympathy for Kashmiri terrorists. After the Iraqi regime is tamed, and a friendly government installed, the cascading effect will also neutralised many terrorist groups in the middle east. This is not bad for India.

I was explaining the reason why there were huge protests in US. Everybody has their own reasons for participationg. But the memory of vitenam is still fresh here. I saw so many interviews where protesters say their loved ones are in the battle field.
Europe in general has a more anti war sentiment. Probably because they have seen the devestation of world wars. Same is very true for Japan.

Amit
Guest

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/01/03 at 15:36:46 »

Really Funny !! Mr Confused !!

So, as per your logic, everyone who protested against this unjustified war here in this forum is either not a Hindu or they have some hidden agenda behind this.
Also, whoever opposed you are the same person, Soumitra, Ram-Allah, Asiti, Prasenjit, AB_DC, Amit they all are actually one person, and chances are highly likely that they are non Hindu. Right ?
You are probably right in one count, they donot believe in the fanatic trishul waiving version of Hinduism you follow. They also do not subscribe to killing in name of religion. The Version of Hinduism we all follow is Vivekananda or Ramkrishna's version of Hinduism. The color of Hinduism we follow is also Saffron, but unlike your colour that Saffron has no stain of blood.
I think, I should not make any more comments about your sense of humanity.

Till now, this liberators have succeeded only in freeing the souls of the Iraqis from their bodies. There is no doubt that US will win this war someday or other, but History will always remember this "shameful crime against humanity"
American and British governments have dragged us into a mess from which we might not emerge for many years. They have unlocked the spirit of war, and it could be unwilling to return to its casket until it has traversed the world.

But we must all thank Bush and Blair for having achieved something that very few have so far managed to do in this century: the bringing together of millions of people on All Continents to fight for the same idea, even though that idea is opposed to theirs.

priya
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/01/03 at 16:17:07 »

hi amit, are you from silchar ? are 2001 batch from g.c. ? enlighen me

devjeetsinha
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/01/03 at 17:29:51 »

Thnaks Amit for your storng counter! We are what we believe we are.We are not confused atall!
[quote author=Amit link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#26 date=04/01/03 at 15:36:46]
Really Funny !! Mr Confused !!

So, as per your logic, everyone who protested against this unjustified war here in this forum is either not a Hindu or they have some hidden agenda behind this.
Also, whoever opposed you are the same person, Soumitra, Ram-Allah, Asiti, Prasenjit, AB_DC, Amit they all are actually one person, and chances are highly likely that they are non Hindu. Right ?
You are probably right in one count, they donot believe in the fanatic trishul waiving version of Hinduism you follow. They also do not subscribe to killing in name of religion. The Version of Hinduism we all follow is Vivekananda or Ramkrishna's version of Hinduism. The color of Hinduism we follow is also Saffron, but unlike your colour that Saffron has no stain of blood.
I think, I should not make any more comments about your sense of humanity.

Till now, this liberators have succeeded only in freeing the souls of the Iraqis from their bodies. There is no doubt that US will win this war someday or other, but History will always remember this "shameful crime against humanity"
American and British governments have dragged us into a mess from which we might not emerge for many years. They have unlocked the spirit of war, and it could be unwilling to return to its casket until it has traversed the world.

But we must all thank Bush and Blair for having achieved something that very few have so far managed to do in this century: the bringing together of millions of people on All Continents to fight for the same idea, even though that idea is opposed to theirs.

[/quote]

devjeetsinha
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/01/03 at 17:32:42 »

Thanks Amit for your Strong Counter.We are what we believe we are !we are not confused atall!
[quote author=devjeetsinha link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#28 date=04/01/03 at 17:29:51]
Thnaks Amit for your storng counter! We are what we believe we are.We are not confused atall!

[/quote]

asiti
asiti

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity
«on: 04/01/03 at 19:43:00 »

[quote author=Amit link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#26 date=04/01/03 at 15:36:46]

American and British governments have dragged us into a mess from which we might not emerge for many years. They have unlocked the spirit of war, and it could be unwilling to return to its casket until it has traversed the world.

But we must all thank Bush and Blair for having achieved something that very few have so far managed to do in this century: the bringing together of millions of people on All Continents to fight for the same idea, even though that idea is opposed to theirs.

[/quote]

There is a Buddhist [Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism] term, called, "changing poison into medicine".

It is very true that because of this present calamity, the common people like us, who were so long callous watchers of DIWALI show [in CNN..Gulf war I] or having emotional out bursts during Kargill war, are becoming concerned about the dignity of life.

It may be inevitable, that the war continues for years, but let us not give up hope in the power of the people. One of our friends have rightly pointed out that all Americans are not war crazy. You will see definitely, the emergence of wise mind in America and Britain, and peace come back.

May be this is the beginning of a new world system, where the power of the common people would pervade, the power of dialogue and culture would take the driver's seat, the peace in the world would rest on three pivots..US, INDIA and CHINA.

king
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 10:29:48 »

well the war is all bout money !! and prime concern for any Capitalist govt is business and that is what US is after ...so they give balls to what the whole world say ...well what Confused said has to be belived ...Max of Indian Economy is dependent on US !! cant help buddies ...its very easy to blame it but can u guys get rid of these Uncle Sam stuff ...no and thats how the world is running ...even though everyone in India feels its just an armstwisting by US ....but see even the Govt had to take the middle path ...its all money that made itb talk ..even when the war is on ..everyone is praying that it ends quikly ..ofcourse the Iraqis' lives are important but also Oil prices !!! Comm'on guys face the truth ...Confused is right ..even the India Construction Cos are interested in this war and understand the no of Civil, Mechies and other indian enggs working for them ....its the basic truth man ! US is the big bozz ...Well God saves the world !!

confused
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 12:43:51 »

Sigh!....
R-A-G/Amit why don't you read my arguments? Whole premise of your response relies on that fact that I am a right winger. You garland me with sharp adjectives like blood sucking,trishul waiving etc. I understand your frustration. Despite the symbolic protests your brother Saddam will get his ass kicked.
(BTW read this in latest newsweek: your brother Saddam used to buy viagra from Jordon)

I never said that everybody who protest against me are same person. I have definite reasons to believe R-A-G/Amit are the same person. Also since you are trying too hard to prove that you are a Hindu, I suspect you are not.

Contrary to what you think I really donot relish watching people being bomberded. But in this war target is not the people of Iraq. If America kills too many civilians Arab sentiment will be totally against war if they are not already.

All I am saying is that this war is not too bad for India. So stop whining. We won't have to get this emotional.

If you are really in US, do tune in to NPR radio during drive time. You will listen to some interesting conversation. They pretty much cover both the side of the story.

People like you are so adapt in (mis)using phrases like hidden agenda, it comes at the slightest provocation even if it is irrelevant.
I said Europeans have anti war sentiments because they have seen devestation of world wars. That does not qualify as a hidden agenda. What that means is that they have a reason. We do not. Saddam is not our beloved brother. (R-A-G's brother)
Let's save the posts on our Hindu beliefs to another thread. I am proud of what I believe in.

Amit
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 15:11:40 »

Mr confused, I don't have to get a certificate from you whether I am a Hindu or not. Of course, I can assure you that I don't believe in your version of Hinduism. My version of Hinduism is not the 'riot version' you people are trying to spread and I am proud with my version of Hinduism.

Earlier also in this forum, I have seen the same behavioral pattern from some version of "confused souls" , if anyone opposes "Your-Type ", you try to brand him as non Hindu.. and snubb him with your choicest of communal remarks.
Such tricks will not work always.

You said "Europeans have anti war sentiments because they have seen devastation of world wars. " Mr confused is the memory of world war -2 still so fresh in European mind ?? Are you trying to tell that the young generation who came out in the streets of cities in Europe in protest against this war, had been brainwashed by their Great-Grand fathers.. ??

The billions of people who came out in the streets of Europe and US, just came out because they could not tolerate this bully and highly arrogant behavior from Bush and Blair, To them there is no reason to go for this war. If one country has rich resources that does not justify other country to bomb them and grab that resource.
You may think that Killing hundreds of Iraqis is fair in name of war because it will give us cheap oil and it will benefit every construction companies. But those who has an ounce of Humanity left in themselves will not think so.

Amit
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 15:14:35 »

[quote author=priya link=board=0011&num=1048150040&start=15#27 date=04/01/03 at 16:17:07]
hi amit, are you from silchar ? are 2001 batch from g.c. ? enlighen me
[/quote]

Priya, I have strong connection to Silchar, but I do not stay in Silchar presently. Also, I am not from GC 2001 batch.

Thanks
Amit

Sumana
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 15:38:18 »

It seems everyone is desperate to get a nomination for the next Nobel Peace Prize. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ram-Allah-God
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/02/03 at 17:16:41 »

Confused.. cool down..!! why use foul languages and expose your perverted style of thinking to the public.

Amit, I guess you need to forgive, forgot and pardon that Confused guy.

Great deal of enlightment from the earlier discussions here.
like..
"Americans are protesting this war- Because they are worried about their family members who are fighting as soldiers."
"Europeans are protesting because they have seen horrors of world war II"
"Rest of world are protesting because they are Muslims.
Indians are protesting as they are not as wise as "confused" or they are "brothers of wicked Saddam"

If you give me your e-mail Id, I can send you some of the interesting photographs I took there in the San Francisco rally,
The captions of the massive group from the University of Berkeley were real thought provoking.

Just for your kind note, Americans whose family members are there in War, are supporting the war,
they donot want the moral of their dearest ones go down while fighting. If you donot believe me, go to the cnn or fox news site and check for yourself the stories and comments there. I think that these family members are doing the right thing.

Whatever it is, already hundreads of civilans are dead in Iraq,
Many more are going to die.. let them die, Oil is more important.

nitaipil1
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/03/03 at 20:33:07 »

We had a great day. We killed a lot of people.
— US Sgt. Schrumpf from southern Iraq
------------------------------------------------------------
shame shame shame
:( >:( :-[ :'( :-X

confused
confused

Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/04/03 at 13:31:43 »

I am not sure what is your definition of foul language.
Your knee jerk reaction at the mention of circumcision compells me to ponder if your circumcision ceremony was something you did not enjoy.
I am sure your primary health physician will recommend a good childhood truma recovery center.
Also I would like to Thank you for explaining what triggered your venomous outburst against Hindu nationalism.
Some of my fellow brethren seem to have caused you a lot of heartache
and this time you are having a deja vu again.
Well, what can I say. I assure you that you have nothing to fear from me. My orientation is rather different.

Here is another instance of the shameless act of your secular brothers.
http://www.anandabazar.com/3cal1.htm

Now, why do you have a tendancy to take things literally? When I say Europeans have seen the devestation of war, that does not mean they have to stand in a stadium near Normandy to watch a brutal war. An event in the past has shaped their point of view. Even if the current generation has not suffered that much.
Similarly when I say that Americans do not want their kids to die in an alien land,
I do not literally mean that. Look at it at a broader sense.
Memory of Vietnam war still haunt Americans. About 50000 Americans came bach home in body bags.

I reiterate my point once agian that this war is not bad for India.
Someday we will be grateful that Bush had the guts to do that.

So Why don't the nuts like you just shutup?

You are so much worried about Iraqis, how about shading a few tears for the Pundits in Kashmir
even your muslim brothers who are dying in the hands of fanatics?

http://humanrights.about.com/library/weekly/aa010302a.htm

Ram-Allah-God
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/04/03 at 15:40:32 »

Confused, I dont understand one thing, Why are you so much worried and anxious to prove me as a Muslim ?

[b]If Protesting the War against Iraq makes me a Non Hindu in the eyes of Hardcore Fundamentalists.. I Don't Care.
India still belongs to the Thumping majority of Hindus whose thought processes are not contaminated. I proudly belong to that majority Group of Hindus.[/b]

I reiterate, The poison of communalism would never go away from people like you, tomorrow if you are reborn as a Muslim, you will use the same poisonous language against Hindus.

George W Bush
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/04/03 at 16:47:52 »

What’s the use of sending a $2 million missile into a $10 tent to hit a camel in the butt?
— George W Bush

Prasenjit Biswas
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Re: ''shameful crime against humanity"
«on: 04/04/03 at 18:51:15 »

ALTHOUGH they are now claiming the opposite, the neo-conservative group who make up George Bush’s right-wing bellicose "think tank" were counting on a short war; a "lightning war" à la Third Reich. Everything depended on the brief duration of hostilities.
Smart bombs do not distinguish between children and soldiers. Arab television channels show the world the horror of this war. Like many other Iraqi parents, this man mourns the loss of his loved ones.
More interested in the result than in the way to achieve it, these hi tech ideologists – who underneath their neo-conservative label are nothing more than hawkish politicians – probably thought that the military machine would do the rest. "Inebriated by their own doctrine and strategy as well as being enveloped in conflicts of private interests" (as French daily Le Monde stated on March 31), they rushed into opening a dangerous Pandora’s box.
With one eye on Iraq’s oil wells, pipelines and refineries and the other on the next U.S. electoral campaign, they were thinking of installing a McDonalds-style democracy between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers; a democracy so contagious that neither Damascus, Tehran or Riyadh would be able to resist it. Beside this plan, one as simple as a video game, a Schwarzenegger film would appear more complicated than an offering by Ingmar Bergman. But they got the film wrong...There is nothing less like virtual reality than a geopolitical jigsaw puzzle.
Things are going so badly "that, in the very heart of the armed forces, some are suggesting starting the war again from scratch," revealed French daily Libération. In The New Yorker magazine on March 31, Seymour Hersch quoted a former head of U.S. espionage who estimated that the war would reach a "dead point". According to Pierre Georges, lead writer for Le Monde, the hawks "have lost the start of the war, with respect to strategy, the media, diplomacy and politics." From now on, for obvious political reasons, President Bush will have to try all possible means to keep the duration of the conflict as short as possible.
It all seems to indicate, however, that Bush will have to face up a "real" war and put up with a lot of sand.
This is indeed what more than 100,000 coalition soldiers embroiled in fighting on Iraqi soil are already experiencing. Their march on Basra or Baghdad is far from being a walk in the park. "After a rapid advance through the desert, the troops should have entered the cities as liberators. This purely political strategy has failed", wrote Serge July in Libération’s editorial on March 31.
This disillusionment has led to a rise in anti-war commentary throughout the world. Washington’s war is illegal and, to cap it all, the Pentagon doesn’t know how to lead it. Military experts in the heart of the reduced coalition’s war machine share the same point of view. Before the war, ringleaders in the warmongering "think tank" were mistaken in deciding to unleash it in any event. Afterwards, they lied to the international community about the real ability of the United States to prepare for this type of conflict and its chances of devising an adequate strategy. Still condemning the aims of the attack and its numerous consequences, members of the anti-war movement – politicians as well as military experts, demonstrators and observers – logically believed, whether they publicly stated it or not, that the promoters of Operation Iraqi Freedom had invested themselves with all possible means to bring an end to the war in the short term, above all taking into account the provisions of the most overwhelming military power that history has ever seen.
Meanwhile, at the close of this edition of the paper, the war is entering its third week of fighting in the southern city of Basra, Mosul in the north and Baghdad – a city under constant bombardment but whose final assault has turned into a nightmare for the Pentagon – and two fundamental errors on the part of the coalition have become evident. The first concerns the realities of the battlefield, which having been badly evaluated or not evaluated at all, have presented U.S. and British troops with more than a few surprises, such as the determination of Saddam Hussein’s regular army and that of the Baath party militias; the conduct of the Shi’ite population in the south (traditionally opposed to Hussein’s power base), which have not risen up and received the Anglo-U.S. "liberators" with rice and flowers; and the unexpected refusal by Turkey to authorize the deployment of 60,000 U.S. troops in its territory, an action that obliged Washington to cancel its plan to open a northern front from the first day of operations.
The second fundamental error concerns the military strategy of those self-same neo-conservatives. It exists in spite of their Mavericks, Predators, Tomahawks and other intelligent "toys" and is even more serious than the first. It should be remembered that Washington’s strategists failed in their objective the first day that they indiscriminately bombed Baghdad: the elimination of Saddam Hussein; an event that, according to the hawks’ rosy plans, would have decapitated the regime and provoked a (more or less) rapid surrender by the Iraqi army. But Vice President Dick Cheney’s so-called "house of cards" strategy failed.
The serenity assumed by General Tommy Franks, the man in charge of military operations, from his headquarters in Qatar, has not been able to conceal the serious defeats suffered by Anglo-American troops since the third day of combat. General William "Scott" Wallace, commander of the U.S. military’s 5th Corps, made an exceptional observation, noting that the enemy his men are confronting is somewhat different from the one imagined when campaign plans were drawn up.
Even the Army Times, the official daily of the U.S. Armed Forces, admitted on the fifth day of combat that the continuation of operations would be difficult. The Wall Street Journal, George W. Bush’s staple periodical, wrote on Monday March 24 that TV coverage of the war had gone from a shock and stupor air campaign to a vision of blood and anguish. The U.S. president himself announced just 24 hours after pushing the red button that the war would be longer and more difficult than previously imagined.
It was confirmed 10 days later that the powerful U.S. military machine had found itself in an Iraqi quagmire, creating a sense of fear over the outcome of the war among military chiefs, as well as in other sectors. The issue is, as Le Monde points out, that the war has various fronts: one "in the Iraqi desert, but another one in world public opinion¼ Another front could very well emerge domestically if the war becomes too costly in terms of the boys’ lives."
It is necessary at this point to highlight the differences between the Iraqi Freedom and Bush Sr.’s Desert Storm operations. While in 1991 General Norman Schwarzkopf applied a simple bulldozer strategy to oust the Iraqi army from Kuwait with a brief ground offensive after 43 days of intensive air bombardments, on this occasion the Anglo-American troops immediately combined air and ground campaigns even though they lacked sufficient troop levels, leaving their rearguard unprotected. While Bush Sr. withdrew from Iraq rapidly, Bush Jr. has decided to wage a war that is nothing short of a prelude to a long-term military and civil occupation. Hence the denomination of the "political war," with monumental objectives and two consequences criticized by sen