confused
confused
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gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/07/04 at 01:49:18 » |
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Not sure if you guys remember that slogan of 1989 election campaign. A slogan that brought down a government that had two third majority in the Indian Parliament. But last week supreme court acquited Rajiv Gandhi and others. The primary reason I did not vote for Rajiv's party was that the vicious campaign led by VP Singh fooled me in believeing that Rajiv Gandhi was corrupt. Now after a decade here I am leraning that he was not corrupt afterall. Question is not just Rajiv Gandhi. Everytime when these issues of politics and corruption arise, we reach to the conclusion too quickly. No matter how different are the views of two Indians, they will agree to the fact that the politicians are corrupt. Even when there is insufficient proof. Illicit relationship of corruption and politics is nothing new. It exists everywhere. But what really makes our life unbearable is corruption at the grassroot level. Something for which we are responsible. We will pay bribe obediently and take some under the table when it suits us. But would never stop blaming the politicians. Which is why you have to pay police to get your passport verification done. Or may be you will have to pay the clark to get your tax refund. I met this guy sometimes back. He is an IES officer and was bosting how he amassed wealth in not so noble way. But when our discussion turned to politics his first statement was "sab sale chor hain". |
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/07/04 at 14:14:25 » |
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A gentleman amassed a lot of wealth in a span of five odd years, working in a clerical post with the governmane of Assam. The first statement he always made when we used to have pan er dukaner samne adda, was "ita politician shala sobti chur".
;D |
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/07/04 at 21:28:29 » |
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[quote author=confused link=board=0011&num=1076113158&start=0#0 date=02/07/04 at 01:49:18]
Not sure if you guys remember that slogan of 1989 election campaign. A slogan that brought down a government that had two third majority in the Indian Parliament. But last week supreme court acquited Rajiv Gandhi and others. The primary reason I did not vote for Rajiv's party was that the vicious campaign led by VP Singh fooled me in believeing that Rajiv Gandhi was corrupt. Now after a decade here I am leraning that he was not corrupt afterall. Question is not just Rajiv Gandhi. Everytime when these issues of politics and corruption arise, we reach to the conclusion too quickly. No matter how different are the views of two Indians, they will agree to the fact that the politicians are corrupt. Even when there is insufficient proof. Illicit relationship of corruption and politics is nothing new. It exists everywhere. But what really makes our life unbearable is corruption at the grassroot level. Something for which we are responsible. We will pay bribe obediently and take some under the table when it suits us. But would never stop blaming the politicians. Which is why you have to pay police to get your passport verification done. Or may be you will have to pay the clark to get your tax refund. I met this guy sometimes back. He is an IES officer and was bosting how he amassed wealth in not so noble way. But when our discussion turned to politics his first statement was "sab sale chor hain".
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Oh ! Come on !! ...I don't think in India you can have the luxury of naivete in such matters....maybe you can get away with it elsewhere, but in India where a judge can be bribed to issue a warrant against the President of India, I would assume cynicism about such things is quite healthy and necessary for us to keep everybody on the toes.
Supreme court e koilo aar tumi bhabi lailaay je Rajiv Gandhi ekkebaare Ganga jole dhowa tulsi paata..... get real my friend. |
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confused
confused
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/08/04 at 02:11:39 » |
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I would have believed you if Congress ministry were in center. Nobody has questioned the virdict so far ( except you that is). Not even people in Janata Dal. Never heard VP Sing making any noise. Indian justice system slow but it delivers. It is sad that people have totally lost faith in the system. Once again, we are the people who make the system. It is our failure. Yours too. |
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/09/04 at 03:53:30 » |
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Its not just sad or unfortunate that people have lost faith in the system....there are enough reasons for it.When a judge can be bribed to issue a warrant against the President of the country, what can you expect ? Be naive at your own risk....but be aware that when you are naive like that, you have failed the test of being the one who is capable of correcting it.If you don't see the problem then you can't solve it....its as simple as that.....just preaching that "Its our failure when the system fails" won't do diddly squat.
And I suppose, no one has anything to gain in terms of political capital by questioning the supreme court's verdict on a matter which has gone into the backburner of Indian politics for almost a decade now....and VP Singh is history too.Read what you may, but if you are going to trust the politicians on what they support and protest, then I would just say you sure have found the way to bliss ;D ;D |
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/09/04 at 12:26:33 » |
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a stray incident or two such as the bribing of the judge does not necessarily put the blame on the Indian judicial system. If there is one thing the masses of the country still have faith on...and rock solid faith at that, is the Indian judiciary. There could be chinks in the shiniest of armours too...that does not mean the armour need not be praised for its vitality.
The Indian judicial system has not done much so as to tickle people to raise questions about its worthiness.
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/09/04 at 18:53:31 » |
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[quote author=Rupam link=board=0011&num=1076113158&start=0#5 date=02/09/04 at 12:26:33]
a stray incident or two such as the bribing of the judge does not necessarily put the blame on the Indian judicial system. If there is one thing the masses of the country still have faith on...and rock solid faith at that, is the Indian judiciary. There could be chinks in the shiniest of armours too...that does not mean the armour need not be praised for its vitality.
The Indian judicial system has not done much so as to tickle people to raise questions about its worthiness.
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Wow ! you must be living in a different India then most others.I remember a few years ago Star News channel hosted a debate on a subject called "Who will judge the judges" or something to that effect, and they took a poll of the audience on whether they had confidence on the Indian judicial system and almost 100 % said an emphatic "No". Its not about the odd high profile PIL on some environmental issue or something else which gets reported in the media giving the judicial system its brownie points....its about the person on the street who is victimized all too often without having any recourse to the mechanisms of justice.
And One or two incidents ? ..... did you hear about the arrest of Justice Shamit Mukherjee of the Delhi High court last year for charges based on the Anti-Corruption Act, or Justice K Veeraswamy who was the chief justice of Madras High Court in 1991 or the famous failed impeachment case against Justice V Ramaswamy during Narasimha Rao's regime or Justice Arun Madan's resignation in Rajasthan.....etc. etc. The list is long enough my friend, to indicate that there is a problem that needs to be handled before it goes out of hand.
The "contempt of court" clause pretty much prevents anyone from accusing any judge of wrongdoing.Also in the K Veeraswamy case of 1991, the supreme court gave the judges extra luxury of immunity against any criminal investigation without prior consent of the chief justice of the supreme court. The Committe on Judicial Accountability(COJA) gave a directive long time ago to frame an independent National Judicial Commission(NJC) with oversight powers on the judicial community of India, but inspite of all political parties agreeing to it, it hasn't become a reality yet.
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/09/04 at 20:36:46 » |
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That is an educated message, I must say. However, the point I am making is that compared to other wings of administration and the members thereof, the corruption reported in case of members of the judiciary is insignificant. More so, if you consider the number of cases dealt with by the judiciary at different strata. Supreme Court till now has not done anything to make people give it awry looks.
Talking of newschannel sponsored polls, three months ago, one such poll in the USA asked people who they thought was/ were responsible for the 911 attacks...an overwhelming 70% replied ..Saddam Hussein. No questioning the statistical significance of the sampling techniques, but probably taking such polls with a pinch of salt helps. |
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confused
confused
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/10/04 at 01:49:03 » |
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[quote author=silchari-pua link=board=0011&num=1076113158&start=0#4 date=02/09/04 at 03:53:30]
Be naive at your own risk....but be aware that when you are naive like that, you have failed the test of being the one who is capable of correcting it.
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First I thought you probably are opposing my view. But then I read your post again. As you have rightly said, "Be naive at your own risk". This is something I intend to convey too. Trust creatures like VP Singh and your rear end will be in line. Don't believe each and everything you read in media. I am not really in a mission to prove that the politicians are our ideal role models. But believing a politically motivited lie may cost the nation. History is the greatest teacher. Sometimes quest to get out of frying pan ( Rajiv's Government) land us in fire (VP sing the *&^ #$%@. |
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/10/04 at 16:30:12 » |
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[quote author=Rupam link=board=0011&num=1076113158&start=0#7 date=02/09/04 at 20:36:46]
That is an educated message, I must say. However, the point I am making is that compared to other wings of administration and the members thereof, the corruption reported in case of members of the judiciary is insignificant. More so, if you consider the number of cases dealt with by the judiciary at different strata. Supreme Court till now has not done anything to make people give it awry looks.
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Yes I agree that the judiciary may not be as infected with corruption as other wings of the administration, but I also believe that we cannot apply the same yardstick in "judging the judges" as we do for everybody else. They are the supposed guardians of the law and it is more heinous for them to break it, then any other citizen of the country.But in our country we have the opposite where the judges have given themselves all kinds of immunity against prosecution, making it virtually impossible to bring them to book unless they commit something as stupid as issuing an warrant against the President of India. |
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confused
confused
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/19/04 at 01:47:07 » |
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So, what is your solution Silchari-pua? |
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/21/04 at 02:13:42 » |
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Well I am not really an expert on this to give a solution, but judicial authority needs to be overseered just as any other branch of governance is.The National Judicial Commission sounds good to me if it is given enough powers to pursue cases against faltering judges, and present it to a higher judicial authority.That way we can limit the possibilty of impeachment to only the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and all the other judges have to go through the same judicial system if they were to transgress. |
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confused
confused
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/21/04 at 17:24:52 » |
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As they say in Sanskrit, Viddat dadati Binayang, knowledge makes people polite. You definitely know more about this issue. Is the National Judicial Commission is just an idea or it will become a reality in future? |
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silchari-pua
silchari-pua
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Re: gali gali me shore hain
«on:
02/25/04 at 04:05:13 » |
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[quote author=confused link=board=0011&num=1076113158&start=0#12 date=02/21/04 at 17:24:52]
As they say in Sanskrit, Viddat dadati Binayang, knowledge makes people polite. You definitely know more about this issue. Is the National Judicial Commission is just an idea or it will become a reality in future?
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Well, thanks for the compliment but I really don't know exactly how things stand today on this issue.
The National Judicial Commission was recommended by the COJA(Committee on Judicial Accountability) and the recommendation was accepted by the Government.In 2003, the bill for the 98th amendment of the constitution to form the NJC was introduced into the Lok Sabha by Arun Jaitley, but I am not sure what happened to it after that.There were some opposition to it initially from the Congress party which kinda stalled it, because an amendment to the consitution cannot be achieved without two-thirds majority.
Here's a news item that appeared just yesterday in the Times of India where the Chief Justice of the supreme court can be heard lamenting about the lack of powers in stemming the rot in the judiciary.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/515473.cms |
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