Masud Rana
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Your identity
«on:
07/06/03 at 22:09:54 » |
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To whom it may concern
I just incidentally came across this site. It's every interesting indeed! I spent hours in reading all the discussions and learned a lot. I did not know that there were people in India who identified themselves as Sylheti.
May I ask you the following questions?
1. Is Sylheti a sub-category within Bengali ethnicity or a parallel one?
2. What are the defining characteristics of being Sylheti and how do these differ from those of being Bengali?
3. Despite the fact that you physically belong not to Sylhet (Bangladesh) but to Assam (India), what are the things that contribute to your identity being Sylheti?
4. Are there any differences along Hindu-Muslim religious line as regard to Sylheti/Bengali identity?
5. As you are trying to unite 'Sylheti from around the world', what are the responses, especially from people of Sylhet itself and from the UK (perhaps you know that in Bengalis are the largest ethnic minority Greater London and they are predominantly from Sylhet)?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Masud Rana
m.rana-alumni@lse.ac.uk
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/09/03 at 01:50:35 » |
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Are the questions very difficult? Can't be! Please do justice to your intelligence and let us know about you.
Correction: In question no.5 ignore 'in' before 'Bengalis' and read it before 'Greater London'.
Masud Rana
m.rana-alumni@lse.ac.uk
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silchar-bashi
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/09/03 at 06:21:51 » |
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[quote author=Masud Rana link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=0#0 date=07/06/03 at 22:09:54]
To whom it may concern
I just incidentally came across this site. It's every interesting indeed! I spent hours in reading all the discussions and learned a lot. I did not know that there were people in India who identified themselves as Sylheti.
May I ask you the following questions?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Masud Rana
m.rana-alumni@lse.ac.uk
[/quote]
1. Is Sylheti a sub-category within Bengali ethnicity or a parallel one?
I would say that Sylheti has historically been a part of the "Bengali ethnicity" as you put it, but has certain defining characteristics which, although doesn't need to force a dichotomy, but may be construed as such. Among the primary ones is the language which has lot of derivatives from Persian and such, which are not in use in the actual Bengali language... But those are just certain aspects which are overshadowed by the similarity that we have with the general Bengali culture and language.
2. What are the defining characteristics of being Sylheti and how do these differ from those of being Bengali?
Now that's quite and undertaking and I am sure there are a lot of people here who can shed light on this..... but I guess speaking Sylheti and eating Hidol, are just a couple of them.
3. Despite the fact that you physically belong not to Sylhet (Bangladesh) but to Assam (India), what are the things that contribute to your identity being Sylheti?
The fact that most of our forefathers called Sylhet their home before the unfortunate partition of India in 1947 forced them to migrate to Assam and elsewhere in India, is what makes us Sylhetis.....just like people from Sind(Pakistan) who have migrated to Bombay(India) are still Sindhis.
4. Are there any differences along Hindu-Muslim religious line as regard to Sylheti/Bengali identity?
I guess there is.... not as much as being Sylheti or Bengali, but from an added religious identification hat being worn by people of both Hindu and Muslim community which keeps them somewhat apart in a religiously volatile area like South Asia.Its not unique for the Bengali/Sylheti community...its the same for the Punjabis and everybody else which has been foisted upon us by the historical realities of the sub-continent.
5. As you are trying to unite 'Sylheti from around the world', what are the responses, especially from people of Sylhet itself and from the UK (perhaps you know that in Bengalis are the largest ethnic minority Greater London and they are predominantly from Sylhet)?
Unite Sylhetis from around the world ?? Now that's a tall ask which probably has political connotations and so beyond my realm...but yes, I am sure everybody realises that the Sylheti community in Greater London is a large and significant one and any efforts to reach out to the large Sylheti diaspora around the world has to start with them in a large measure.
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NRS
NRS
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/09/03 at 08:51:51 » |
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Hey a good discussion goin on ! Well I thought we are just a dialect of Bengali ! Anyway For such a vast language like Bengali there is bound to be differnt strains of it - and so is Sylheti . Of course with change of waters our traditions are quite differnt from other bengalis in India ( and maybe in B'Desh also ) . Well as for a language is concerned it is not bound with a religion I Hope .It has almost become like sets and supersets where sometime traditions are common due to language or sometimes maybe due to religion ....but Language moves in a different way ...It increases by a more number Literature in it...And I feel we follow a standard Bangla for our literature and Sylheti for Conversation ..
Uniting the whole sylheti folks is a good idea ..there are already so many Srihatta Associations in India . I knwo of one in delhi where so many influential folks are members .
cheerz 8)!!
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/09/03 at 11:55:06 » |
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Thanks to those who have contributed to this discussion. Would you mind if I publish them in an English or Bengali newspaper here in London? There are at least half a dozen Bengali newspapers being published from London and among them Surma is the most popular. I am sure people will enjoy our discussion.
The discussion will continue. Why not come with real name?
Masud Rana
m.rana-alumni@lse.ac.uk
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Jimut
Jimut
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/10/03 at 13:31:42 » |
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Ei Silchar-bashi tumi ke reba ??
Boro shundor lekhso...maane ektu kothin-kothin shobdo aar ektu complex sentence construction...kintu tumar posting ta aami dui baar porsi...khub bhala laagse...silchar-bashi manush eto well-read...bhablei bhala laage...maane onke aase...kintu beshi chouko pore na...er lagiya bhala laaglo...
Coming to Mr. Mashud's query,
Since you've been decent enough to actually request for permission before you use the contents of this site, I suggest you send an e-mail to Premasish...admin@silchar.com and formally ask for his permission...there is no reason for him to say "No" I hope...and besides, you can always bribe him by promising to courier him some of the great "Pod-dar ilish" that you get in Greater London...what say ?? ;D
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/10/03 at 16:29:13 » |
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Hi Jimut
I like your sense of humour. The Hilsha fishes from the Padma seem to have migrated to the Thames. They are also fond of £s!
You called me Mashud. Please drop the ‘h’ and hold me as Masud. I am not Mr. Masud either. You could call me Mr. Rana. In English we do not use Mr., Mrs., etc. before a first name. We call people by first names in cordial and informal settings. If you prefer to use 'Mr.’ then it should be followed by my surname, Rana.
Do you hold the same views as Shilchar-bashi’s? If different, please put forward!
Thanks for your kind advice. I’ll contact Prem. Where do you live, by the way?
Masud Rana
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Jimut
Jimut
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/11/03 at 10:49:31 » |
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[quote author=Masud_Rana link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=0#6 date=07/10/03 at 16:29:13]
Where do you live, by the way?
Masud Rana
[/quote]
No, I don't live by the way ;D ;D I live by the Brahmaputra...that's in Assam...the state of which Silchar is a district headquarter.
Coming to your objections...I apologize...Masud...Masud...Masud...aar bhool oito naa...but as far as the "Mr." is concerned, I felt that your surname is Masud...as for example, Khaled Mashud ( correct spelling ), the cricketer from Bangladesh...moreover, Rana is usually a nickname used by Bengalis...it's also a surname for Oriyas and certain people with roots in Rajasthan...I didn't think it was YOUR surname...so I put a Mr. before "Masud"...aar tumi chance paiya gyaan dilailai ;D ;D
And out here at this site, the interaction is usually cordial...I didn't attach that tag to make it sound formal...sometimes I refer to even my closest friends as "Mr." in jest...that's a common thing in India...
Te ita baad deo...aar kow te full address dei...koyekta Ilish pathao amar kaase...although I'm pretty close to the Padma, fish from there, that too the good ones, is hard to get. |
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asiti
asiti
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/11/03 at 14:37:12 » |
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Rana Saab.. [ North Indian equivalent of Mr. Rana]
For example
When I address something specifically to Jimut... I write Shreeman Jimutbahan..
[Gyan : In India we use Shreeman or Shree or Shreeyukta [very rare] in place of Mr. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D]
In Maha Adda..
No formality..only " Aapna Admi" [this is Hindi..meaning Ghoror Manush} and lots of leg pulling. You would be amazed, Jimut has become a tall person. ;) |
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/11/03 at 18:19:47 » |
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[quote author=Jimut link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=0#7 date=07/11/03 at 10:49:31]
No, I don't live by the way ;D ;D I live by the Brahmaputra...that's in Assam...the state of which Silchar is a district headquarter.
Te ita baad deo...aar kow te full address dei...koyekta Ilish pathao amar kaase...although I'm pretty close to the Padma, fish from there, that too the good ones, is hard to get.
[/quote]
Aapni roshik botey! Give your address, I might come in person to Silchar, of course with a Hisha for you. Alternatively, you may come to London as my guest and enjoy not only fish but also chips for which London is really famous.
Let me tell you a joke in this connection. In a restaurant in East London (where the Bengalis are majority) a Bengali man was having his lunch with fried chicken. In front of him was an Englishman eating fish-n-chips, the traditional English food. The Bengali man had virtually finished his meal, but was still chewing the bones.
As that was not a good sight for the Englishman, he was disgusted. Incidentally, the Englishman was a racist who would love to humiliate Asian people for their unconformity to English habits and culture. So he pretended to be friendly and asked, 'Hello my friend, I am from England, where about you? India, Pakistan, Bangladesh?'
The Bengali man replied, 'Bangladesh', and kept chewing the bones. Other customers around them were overhearing their conversation. Now the Englishman asked, 'what do the dogs eat in your country?' The Bengali man understood what the Englishman actually meant (if you eat bones, what do you leave for your dogs then?). The Bengali man was embarrassed, as some of the customers were laughing, but he pretended as if nothing had happened.
The Bengali man, rather reluctantly, looked at the Englishman's dish of fish-n-chips and turned his eyes to him. Still chewing bones, the Bengali man indifferently replied , 'they eat fish-n-chips'. That made all customers burst into laughter, but the Englishman could not join them.
Good man!
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admin
admin
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/11/03 at 21:57:31 » |
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when i visited London last year, I found it quite interesting that indian (i mean food from indian subcontinent) is so popular in UK. Found fish and chips shops in all nooks and corners (just like our pan shops). And Kabab was sold everywhere. It seems Chicken Tikka Masala was the number 1 food in UK few years back !! And Mein Prem Ki Diwani Hu is number 8 in UK top 10 films !!! This is quite unlike US , maybe because they r half the world away from india and maybe they didnt rule us ... so.
Talking of sylhetis ... an interesting incident took place when we went to buy some misti in London. The store was run by a chacha ... I told him my Dad is originaly from Sylhet, he asked where ... I said Moulvibazar.. and he was delighted to hear that and said he was also from there. So we bought some sweets and samosas and left . Few minutes back I returned to take 2 samosas ad some chutney. But then he was serving an Indian (hindi speaking) guy (who sounded like an army man ... i mean quite strict). The shop owner was pleased to see me and greeted me and asked me what i wanted. The indian guy interruppted saying "Bhai saab , mein uske pehle aaya ... aap mujhe do pehle" .. chacha obliged and said "haan .. aapko hi dunga" ... and murmured something in sylheti :) ... he called me inside and gave me the extra samosas .. and when i was walking out .. the indian fellow was staring helplessly ...
Felt good as I never thought someone from some other country, some other religion could act like someone so close !!! Maybe we never face with this reality ... maybe the chacha was closer to me than the indian person !!!
premasish |
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Biplabs
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/24/03 at 11:20:05 » |
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Hi All,
This question of identity has troubled me a lot too... I don't think we have any identity. I concluded as we are bengalis scattered across the eastern part of india and poor victims of partition.. Nothing more than that...
When you are staying in diferent state then people out there will like to know about your state of origin.. You happily say assam and people assume you as assamese. You have to explain others like this,"Though I'm staying in assam yet I'm bengali and also accept that my bengali is different from what bengalis in calcutta speak"... These leave the second person baffled and he goes back scracting his head....
Doesn't the above para explains our identity crisis... I am sure it would have happened with many of us who have been outside assam....
We should not say our self as sylethi zindabad or hail sylethi but outside world should tell that..Isn't it??
Have a good day....
Biplab_deb
mailto:biplab_deb@yahoo.com
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/24/03 at 12:27:01 » |
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Having multiple identities does not necessarily mean a crisis. All people have different identities at different levels. In social psychology we analyse people's identities at (1) superordinate level (2) intermediate level and (3) subordinate level. Historically, the Bengalis are an ethnolinguistic group at superordinate level. They are Indian and Bangladeshi at intermediate level. At subordinate level they are Hindu, Muslim, etc. This is what is called crossed-categorization with their associated cognitive convergence and divergence at the same time. This is a natural phenomenon and not a crisis. A crisis arises only when two crossed-categories conflict with each other and create a psychological state ambivalence. For example, Bengali speaking people in the Indian sub-continent were Bengali and Hindu/Muslim without any crisis. But when Jinnah's purpose-built Two-Nations Theory imposed a cognitive conflict between being Bengali and being Hindu/Muslim, there arose a crisis. The crisis was temporarily resolved through the sad partition of Bengal, as the Bengalis' religious identity overpowered their ethnolinguistic identity.
Not only in Silchar, Bengali people suffer from identity crisis everywhere for historical reason. Resolving this crisis is a big historical task which requires an ideology and leadership.
Masud Rana
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/24/03 at 14:47:38 » |
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Further, other people's ignorance (a situation where they do not know who you are) does not constitute an identity-crisis in you. People in a remote Indian village do not know who the Germans are, but their ignorance does create any identity-crisis in a German's mind. Identity crisis is not an external affair; it is rather internal to social individuals. But this is not to say that what other people think about you is irrelevant. Quite contrary, how people identify you is very important. However, the main point here to be made is that identity-crisis comes from within and not from without.
Masud Rana |
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admin
admin
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/24/03 at 22:23:27 » |
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nice thought !!
regards
premasish |
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asiti
asiti
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/25/03 at 06:51:22 » |
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I would like to add something to Masud's very mature analysis.
A "supremeordinate" level would be that, we all are human beings, having the same longing for peace and security in our lives and society. We all are the microcosmic manifestations of the universal macrocosm throbbing with life. In that sense, there is no difference between Masud's life, my life, Jimut's life, Cool Dude's life.....
Our differences are based on our own creations of the circumstances.
Note: I am not saying that the superficial differences with respect to physical appearances are made according to our order at present. For example: I am 5'6", whereas Jimut is trying to smell the sky. To avoid neck sprain, I usually talk with him over telephone only ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Biplabs
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/26/03 at 07:41:13 » |
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Namaskar,
It was nice to receive an immediate answer.. Thaks a lot.. Actually,whenever I liked to discuss about community issue,I never found anyone... I found this discusssion very lively, informative and knowledge sharing too... May be in this way,i can know more about my own community but on the expense of your time... Thanks again...
I was not trying to explain about individual's identification based on one's virtue but the role played by the community on his identification. When I try to introduce myself from my community point of view then I always fail.... The reason is my community is not well known anywhere... The more I try to explain,the more I feel like a foreigner whose origin was somewhere across the border....
I put my views in this way,multiple identity is a crisis when you don't have a firm single identity. It is like covering your true identity with many additional informations which the listener may not be interested...
A person in remote indian village does not know about germans and the germans are also equally not bothered about it.. That's very true... In this case,I call it the ignorance of villager who doesn't know about germans... In my case it is the bliss of the second person who doesn't know about my community as my comunity has not offered anything to the world(to my best of knowledge again).. I am talking community taking the syletthis into consideration not the people from west of bengal... The whole point why I started my discussion was what contribution does my community plays in my identification???
Why go so far?? lets talk about the situation when you meet someone from different part within india itself.. It is very simple to indroduce yourself from the individualistic point of view but it gets complicated when you explain yourself from your community point of view... Whether anyone agrees or not,it definitely lets the second person in a confused state..
Is it that we are trying to cover ourself saying multiple identity, multilingual and similar things as we lack any identity???
Have a nice day...
Best regards,
Biplab_deb
mailto:biplab_deb@yahoo.com |
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kanai pan bhandar
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/26/03 at 09:22:48 » |
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[quote author=NRS link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=0#3 date=07/09/03 at 08:51:51]
Uniting the whole sylheti folks is a good idea ..there are already so many Srihatta Associations in India . I knwo of one in delhi where so many influential folks are members .
cheerz 8)!!
[/quote]
r u talking about that association in chittaranjan park where u get to listen hindi songs during their sommmmmelon. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? |
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
07/26/03 at 11:58:30 » |
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[quote author=Biplabs link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=15#16 date=07/26/03 at 07:41:13]
The whole point why I started my discussion was what contribution does my community plays in my identification???
[/quote]
Very interesting! Biplab has raised quite a few points worth investigating. I think the starting point should be what has been quoted above. To put it simple, what contribution does one's community make to one's identity?
This is a very important theoretical issue. If all can bear with me, I will be happy discuss. I am really touched by Biplab's feelings and invite all to join (thanks to Prem for this brilliant website).
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Common sense
Guest
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/01/03 at 19:49:17 » |
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Identity means the surrouding to which oneself is identified with. The question is what if someone returns home after several decades to find that nobody is there to welcome him or her? S(he) only remembers the surrounding, but the community is not the same anymore. hence, a identity crisis. Isnt it? |
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brishti
indianfriend
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/07/03 at 15:44:57 » |
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:)You r right asitida,manush prothome manush,tarpor tar onno porichoi.na purush na nari,na hindu na musholmaan,na assamese na bangali,na gora na kala,manush prothom manush.
Globally,there is only one broad division of the total human civilization:the powerfull and the weak;the all-haves and the have-nots.We should think about these two identities and decide where we belong.I think,this kind of thinking will give us a deep understanding of human values,human nature and our survival instinct.....because,deep within all masks of religion,region,colour and creed............we all are alike.
:D manush-er jonno shobkichhu....shobar opore manush.
[quote author=asiti link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=15#15 date=07/25/03 at 06:51:22]
I would like to add something to Masud's very mature analysis.
A "supremeordinate" level would be that, we all are human beings, having the same longing for peace and security in our lives and society. We all are the microcosmic manifestations of the universal macrocosm throbbing with life. In that sense, there is no difference between Masud's life, my life, Jimut's life, Cool Dude's life.....
Our differences are based on our own creations of the circumstances.
Note: I am not saying that the superficial differences with respect to physical appearances are made according to our order at present. For example: I am 5'6", whereas Jimut is trying to smell the sky. To avoid neck sprain, I usually talk with him over telephone only ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/quote] :) |
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Selfless
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/13/03 at 07:03:17 » |
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Yeah, I agree that we are just the human being, and everything else (culture, religion, language etc) is secondary in nature. Yet, it seems impossible to forget our identity till death sets us apart. |
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Bips
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/20/03 at 17:58:14 » |
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Hi All,
"Manush prothome manush,tarpor tar onno porichoi.na purush na nari,na hindu na musholmaan,na assamese na bangali,na gora na kala,manush prothom manush."
That was good thought and everyone knows about it,isn't it. I guess,probably you wanted to remind us again about that thought... Thanks..
Let me put my views about this discussion.I was under the impression that the discussion was focussed on understanding about the syletti community, it's identity and it's influence on the people who speaks it.
The more we argue and discuss about our community,the more our attachment and knowlege increases about it... We hardly speak about our community with the exception of this internet site.. Out of one billion indians,our population must be less than 1%.. On top of that,the way slowly SYLETTI MIGRATION :-[ is taking place from north eastern states causes an alarm to our community... Let's talk and understand more about our culture and pass it on to next generation before it is too late...
Have a great Day...
Best Regards,
Biplabs
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Masud_Rana
Masud_Rana
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/21/03 at 08:56:25 » |
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[quote author=Bips link=board=0011&num=1057520394&start=15#22 date=08/20/03 at 17:58:14]
On top of that,the way slowly SYLETTI MIGRATION :-[ is taking place from north eastern states causes an alarm to our community.
[/quote]
Biplab, could you please detail the above.
Masud Rana |
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Non-migrant
Guest
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/22/03 at 03:17:09 » |
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My parent migrated from the Sylhet region (now in Bangladesh)to Silchar soon after the Indian partition. I wonder if the people living around the Barak Valley used to be the sylhetti people during that time. Now I see a mix of people coming from the different parts of the country, and mostly from Bangladesh. Some people, especially young generation are leaving the Barak valley in search of good fortune, jobs, new world etc. So, I can say the population influx can occur both ways, though the population is still rising in each state. |
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Bips
Guest
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Re: Your identity
«on:
08/26/03 at 17:41:53 » |
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Sylhetis are basically scattered across the north eastern part of india what we call as the seven sisters. First of all what is the need of migration?? This is mainly because of insurgency, unemployment and underdevelopment in these region.These three factors have broken the backbone of entire business in these states.
There are lot of good educational institution in these states. IIT Ghy,RECS,NERIST,SMC,GMC,DMC,Cotton ,GC college are few to name. These colleges are like a vending machine which produces mass of educated people year after year. Where are these people going?? Since there are no jobs so people shift to other states and slowly settle down. Earlier people used to prefer calcutta as thier destination but it is mostly bangalore,delhi and Bombay now.
There is another section of the people who are working in the govornment organisation in these seven states. Most of the people after retirement prefer calcutta for a peaceful retired life .
This is the migration I was talking about. We are not realising it but it is happening... Now,what happens when we settle down in another state?? The generation which has first migrated will still stick to thier roots in eastern region but thier siblings will be totally different..
Think about any Marathi,Kannadiga or Gujrathi. They don't need to leave thier place so the culture is well preserved and carried forward whereas it is not same for ours...
These are my thoughts which I developed over a period of time after meeting many families all over india and abroad with syletti origin... This conclusion is drawn after meeting people of many age groups within same family also. The old people becomes extremly happy and curious on meeting sylethis outside silchar whereas the next generation is so casual in thier behaviour. They rather wonder at thier parent's behaviour.. This is purely my statistics which unfortunately matches with many of my friends now settled far outside assam. I still call it a coincidence so you people can probably give more light on this topic by sharing your experiences.
BTW,if you feel this topic has already being discussed earlier then we can drop it as well...
Have a nice day....
Best regards,
Biplab
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