kigoobe
kigoobe
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Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/29/05 at 04:48:21 » |
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Hi Guys
One of the strangest things that I have seen in France (along with their habit of using toilet paper in lieu of water and habit of eating raw snails, to name a few) is their deep hatred towards the heroes of axis power, specially Hitler. People here do not really like him ... and gets surprised when I tell them he is quite a popular person in India and many houses have photo of him hanging in the wall.
While we know him as somebody who faught against the British and allied forces and helped us in our freedom struggle, here people consider him as a killer who killed 6 million ppl for no reasons.
I was wondering, how true this story of 6 million Jews is ? Is it just yet another story created by the party that won the war, or really there is some facts lying somewhere ...
I tried to find in the internet, but since Hitler is somebody hated strongly by the West, I find it is not surprising that no website dare to analyse the subject openly. Thought, some of our Silchar.com guys may know something about this ...
anybody ?
Cheers. |
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Khaki_29uk
Khaki_29uk
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/29/05 at 06:18:13 » |
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I honestly cannot believe what I have just read...
I'm sorry, but I must have missed something? You honestly find the French peoples hatred of Hitler strange - a country that was overrun and occupied by them during the Second World War...
But first off, I'd just like to point out that Hitler DID NOT aid India in it's independence struggle - and especially not in the way that I'm assuming you're implying - because he believed in it. He believed in the supremacy of the Aryan race over all others... proof being (as he saw it) the fact that India with a population of some hundreds of millions was ruled over by some 200,000 British... The only reason Hitler assisted Chandra Bose and Indian independence was only to backfoot the British...
And well, we must hang around totally different types of people because I do not know a single Asian family having portraits of Hitler on their walls or even seeing him as an hero. The only people who do are probably 'Islamists extremist' - and I use the word here loosely - who see it as having done them a favour or white supremacists.
It is true though, history has and always will be skewed to represent the views of the victors, but I do honestly believe millions of Jews (and scores of other groups) were murdered under the Nazi regime. The evidence is 'there' for everyone to see: from the concentration camps to claimed facts and evidence pertaining to a denial of the Holocuast being found to be flawed when scrutinised.
PS and I'm sure many French people think Bengali's have some strange habits too -_-;;
PSS And you're right, it is difficult to find good sites dealing with this issue though I do remember reading an interesting article on [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial]wikipedia[/url] a while ago... |
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confused
confused
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
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08/29/05 at 12:40:20 » |
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I have been using toilet paper for quite a while. I think I like it because that way I don't touch my %*&t. I like to keep my hand clean. But that is only me. I still use water when I visit my parents. But I really won't advise each and every Indian to use toiled paper. If 1 billion people start using toilet paper, not a single tree in India will survive.
I am not sure sure about your worship of Hitler. I have never seen a single Indian family that hangs hitlers photo. But I have met many would like to hang him if they could. This Indian included. To bad he died like a rat in a bunker.
Probably you like his Aryan theory. But none of us is Aryan by his standard. Who knows if he could lay his hand on India, you won't be here to write a post worshiping him. He would have walked your grand father to gas chamber ...
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debasish_ch
debasish_ch
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/29/05 at 21:41:21 » |
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Kigoobe-da, kicchu mono korio na.... ebong bhabio na je personal attack koriyar... kintu tumar samparke amaar observation hoilo je tumi khub bhala, khub lakkhi, ebong... tumi ektu khucha khuchi korte bhala pao. Jemon jakhan desher (ebong bidesher) shingho bhaag manushe koin je Gandhi bhala aar Hitler kharap, takhan tumi tukaite jao je er biparit dike Gandhir dush aar Hitler-er gun tainre list out koriya jodi public opinion kunumate bodlani jay. Shei briddho kobiye duita line lekhiya gesla..
Amaar mote jagat tate bhalo taari pradhanya
Mondo jodi teen chollish, bhalor sankhya shatanno
Dosh gunte chao jodi to taal kora jay bindu ke
Moter upor..... Jai na boluk nindook-e.
(Shillong-er chithi, anumanik 1930).
Kothata bhabiya dekhiyo... aar dada raag koriyo na. Khub raag uthle amare gaillaiya bhut jharai diyo, kintu mon kharap koriyo na. |
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TaarCheera
TaarCheera
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/29/05 at 21:53:15 » |
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KG da ektu offline jinis jigairam, silchar jokhon jau , traffic police e dhoria tumar naam jigaile kita kou?
Traffic Police: aapnar naam kita?
KG da: Kigoobe.
is it like this?
fine double kore ni?
:)
TC
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brishti
indianfriend
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 01:29:26 » |
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Good to see you again...Taarchheera :D |
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Stranger_sandy
Stranger_sandy
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 02:34:51 » |
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Adolf Hitler!! Nice topic.
A person who wanted to become a painter but ended up drawing a bad picture in a real bad frame. Even though I appreciate his guts (from a army's dispatch runner to a dictator), I'll never hang his picture in my living room neither I have seen that in any of the Indian houses, but thinking of India's diversity I am ready to buy this as well.
Undoubtedly this punctual, beetle car lover gained his popularity (from only 12 seats in 1928 to 107 in 1930) and became undisputed dictator of Germany with support from Nationalists. Smart as fox was not at all a friend of any one neither to him, but a real hero who never accepted the defeat. Marrying his mistress at such late age (April 29, 1945) proofs that he was a great and practical lover too, committed suicide with his beloved.
A great dictator, a person who could think way beyond time, a tough enemy but either of these qualities can not give him enough freedom to kill millions of people. French have their own explanation of hatred and I have mine. If Hiroshima was a shame for United States of America then definitely Hitler was one for German. But with each war some gained some lost and they call it “Survival of the fittest”.
-Sid
BTW, Kigoobe dada, Is kgoobe a French word too? I visited the website, No offence but is software's plural is "softwares" in French, just for my record.
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kigoobe
kigoobe
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 05:23:15 » |
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Na ba Debasish, raag kene kortam, but ekta kotha thik, I like khuchakhuchi. Ekhon prosno oilo, khuchakhuchi ta kun jegat ? Yes, I like doing khuchakhuchi into a propaganda, that I feel has been delivered unilateraly by someone, or some group, without anybody having a chance of contesting them, a propaganda that serves its creator's own interest, and what involves the sentiment of mass people. I like to study more about such propagandas, and to unveil what's behind that propaganda, not for others, but in this way personally I feel relaxed thinking that I didn't digest a 'rupkotha' blindly. Tobey tumar kobitar kisu bhandar ase ba, mante lagbo ... ami onyo post-eo kheyal korsi ... bhala bhala .. beshi raite faan khawa chole ni okhonow btw :) ;D ;D
Asholey, I think, amar topic ta ektu confusing oi gese ... je byaparta lekhsilam, ita abar tulia dhorlam ...
[quote]
I was wondering, how true this story of 6 million Jews is ? Is it just yet another story created by the party that won the war, or really there is some facts lying somewhere ...
[/quote]
Maney re ba, if he had really killed that much number (or even less) of people, of course that's something to condemn, exactly as I condemn what the British did in India, and what the French, the Italians, the Americans, the Chinese etc. are doing or did elsewhere. Kintu oi je koilam, bathroom-o dhukai dhukai 60 lakh manush re mari lailo ... ita thik amar hojom hor na ... say for example, 1 and 1/2 times of Barak Valley's population ... chinta koro sain ba, bathroom tarare dhukao, ekjon dui jon kori, tumar koto din lagbo, aar tarpore gas chalao, erare marar lagi, not that easy after all.
Kene koiram, amra eto eto propaganda amrar jibone gilchi, aar giliya jairam, jeta fore prokash pai (and even that, not to everybody), that I really want to be sure before believing something, not just because my great grand mother told this to my grand mother, and she is telling it to me and that everybody has believed it without posing a question ...
Anyway, Sandy your post seems to be the most informative till now ... besides, Kigoobe is our very own Sylheti word man (it may mean something else in some other languages, but not in my knowledge yet) .. aar bujrai to ba, silcharor fua, english amar boro baad ... kun jegat bhul korsi ektu koile thik kormu aarki ba ... desher manusheu to desher manusher bhul dhorai ditai ... (software -> logiciel in french)
About toilet paper ... I do use it as well, but personally prefer using water, simply because with water, tumi 'dhow', and with a tissue paper, tumi 'muchho' ... a simple taste of cleanliness ;)
Aar ba Nabarun, tumi amare silcharor thulla hoklor hate bari khawaitai bujram ... gotobar silchor giya marwari aar soshan road or fula faan or maramarir fallat foriya thurar lagi bari khawa thaki bachigechi ... tumi amare itar yaad dilai lai ... ;D
Cheers. |
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 11:13:38 » |
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oii Smashan Road er pulapan loiya ke mate ino? >:( |
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Karim Khan
Khaki_29uk
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 21:48:01 » |
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[quote author=kigoobe link=board=0011&num=1125263901&start=0#7 date=08/30/05 at 05:23:15]...of course that's something to condemn...[/quote]
I have no doubt about that :)
[quote author=kigoobe link=board=0011&num=1125263901&start=0#7 date=08/30/05 at 05:23:15]
...[i]I think, amar topic ta ektu confusing oi gese...
...I was wondering, how true this story of 6 million Jews is ? Is it just yet another story created by the party that won the war, or really there is some facts lying somewhere[/i]...[/quote]
From what most people have said in their replies, I would assume they believe this figure to be somewhat true.
We are always being fed propaganda, but I think concerning this particular topic there is some truth behind it... Even conspiracy theories have their limits >=p~
It is a period of time that has been studied in great detail by 'all sides'. True, it is illegal to deny the holocaust (and therefore hard to find counter-material) in a number of countries, but the 'revisionists' or whatever you want to call them, have been proven wrong time and time again, and I have yet to see any sound evidence to the contrary.
I hope you find what you're looking for though. |
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Stranger_sandy
Stranger_sandy
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 23:02:05 » |
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Hey Saurav!!
Thanks for clearing my doubts, and also for teaching me a nice French word.
Do y’all know It was probably in Germany that Subhash Chandra Bose was first known as ‘Netaji’ (‘Führer’ is the equivalent German expression). I still wonder how a self-respecting and dynamic personality could put up for two long years with an inhuman fascist clique. It seems Netaji accepted the fact that “enemy’s enemy is your friend”
Hitler's father, Alois, was registered as an illegitimate child with no father, Alois' mother worked in the home of a wealthy Jew and there is some chance a son in that household got the woman (i.e., Hitler's grandmother) pregnant. Adolf Hitler was not Jewish and probably this is one of the reasons he came hard on Jews. There is evidence in history books that Nazis used their “euthanasia” program to kill thousands of men, women and even children. Of the approximately 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust, more than half were systematically exterminated in the highly rationalized gas chamber/crematorium system of the Nazi Death Camps between 1942 and 1945. Even within Germany, Hitler ordered a program to systematically kill handicapped Germans, and over 200,000 were eventually murdered.
In those Gas chambers they primarily used Gas Vans, Zyklon-B, Carbon Monoxide etc. out of which probably carbon monoxide was most effective (killed approximately 22million people).
I am sure there are thousands other known/ unknown interesting facts about Hitler, would definitely love to know about those.
-Sid
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ravi
ravi
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 23:20:44 » |
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One example of the historical mistakes regarding numbers is in Bangladesh. The no. of people killed by Pakistanis were around 3 lacs (3 lokkho). By slip of tounge, Mujibor Rehman gave the nos 3 million. His slip of tongue is understable, since most bengalis (including myself) often confuse between lokkho and million. Since then, the number of tolls in Bangladesh liberation struggle has become officially 30 lokkho or 3 million.
However, 3 lacs itself is a huge number and this makes East Pakistan genocide as one of the worst ever in world history. |
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kigoobe
kigoobe
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/30/05 at 23:53:29 » |
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He he ... nice one Ravi ... even I've taken a long time to figure out how many zeros are there after a million ... 8) ...
Another very informative post from Sandy ... tumar knowledge bhandar ta to boro gobhir re ba ... tey karimganj-e kun jegat bari tumar ? Just asking. Another story I've heard, don't know how far that's true, that he was once betrayed by a girl whom he loved, and that was a Jews girl.
Anyway, true that he may be history's most hated person in the world ... and I would still love to know more about him ...
Cheers. |
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Stranger_sandy
Stranger_sandy
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/31/05 at 03:10:11 » |
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Thanks for your remarks Saurav!
I don't call it knowledge, World War-II is one my interest, I like Netaji very much and anything that relates to him I like to explore. Dictatorship and dictators always inspire me. When I saw your post thought of discussing and exploring some unknown facts. It’s very hard to find a discussion which really excites me in this forum and most of the good ones are spoiled by adding personal sentiments, so far this discussion doesn’t have any of those.
Yes you are true Hitler was infatuated with Geli Raubal daughter of his half-sister. Although I don’t find much reference of Geli, it seems Hitler was extremely possessive for her; they lived together for over two years. They say Hitler controlled her so much that she ended by committing suicide. Another story involved in this suicide is Geli was expecting Hitler’s baby. Rumors also say that Hitler threatened to take his own life after hearing the death of Geli, and he became a vegetarian after Geli’s suicide.
I call him a great dictator but not at all a good human being.
-Sid
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Dr.Jekyll
Dr.Jekyll
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/31/05 at 04:50:32 » |
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Well as I always say....there is a mixture of good and bad in everything and it is on the environment that shapes the person's character. Hitler's father was a poor man and his greatest achievement was when he became a civil servant....though he wanted to be a parson as he thought that a parson was the most respected personality in the whole area....He wanted Hitler to be a higher civil servant than he was.....But as fate would have it...hitler was to become a dictator.
Interestingly enough and very ironic, when Hitler was a kid..he had the fascination of being and artist and would fight with his equally stubborn father who wanted to make him a civil servant. He went to the Austrian cultural center, Vienna and had undergone the pre-test for apprentice as an artist, but the academy thought that he would do well as an architect.
I guess before we comment on anybody...be it Hitler or Dr. Jekyll......get to know that person as much as you can....and one good way to know Hitler would be "Mein Kampf" (My Struggle) his autobiography in two volumes, and The Worlds Craziest Despots (Penguin Paperback)....Cheers :D :D |
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TaarCheera
TaarCheera
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/31/05 at 17:53:27 » |
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I heard that Hitler's mother was suffering from breast cancer and was treated by Jewish doctor. After an expensive and painful operation she died in 1907.
Was it the way Kigoobe name come to tour mind? It’s a hypothesis.
In Feluda series once a English man said “ There was a brown crow “
Waiter understood that dorwaja bond koro.
When I saw the advertisement of Eveready battery, it says “ Give me way “
But to me it sounds like “ Kigoobeyyyyy”
:) TC |
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
08/31/05 at 18:37:04 » |
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The English had problem pronouncing Siraj-ud-dullah...so they said 'Sir Rojer Dollar"
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Rupam
Rupam
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
09/05/05 at 16:11:52 » |
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Never known anyone in India who is impressed enough with Hitler to have kept a photograph of the dictator. Infact, I wonder, how many in Germany do that either, particularly ones who arent attracted to the Nazi ideology- which though existant, is small in number, and is mostly on the run, carrying out their activities primarily out of Argentina and Spain.
Even in Germany, the holocaust is an hush- hush affair- an entire nation trying to keep the shame at bay, brought upon them by a group of sadists, unscrupulous and coward ultra- rightwing people who called themselves the Nazis- and roused the rabble successfully in their attempt to bring their Fatherland the glory, they so believed was their right, since they were Aryans.
One improtant distinction is made by Frederick Forsyth in his novel- the Odessa File, wherein he points the difference out ebtween the Nazi SS (special secret service, Gestapo etc.), and other hit groups comissioned by Hitler and the German Army. The point Forsyth makes, is that, the lingo of patriotism, glory to the Fatherland etc. raised by Hitler and his men were infact a charade, that hid their own personal ambitions, lust for power and loot, and insecurity. The patriotic zeal that the Nazis so boasted themselves about, can be seen through one single event-
when the Russians were invading and advancing into Germany, the German Army was hugely outnumbered at the flanks and were retreading towards Berling, to concentrate their strength and save the capital. It was a hopeless fight against the onward marching Russians from the East, but just so that the SS officers could safely go back to Germany, and arrange for their escape to the friendly countries, the German Army was asked to fight against the Russians, so that the advance could be delayed. When some of the Army tried to retreat, the SS Officers shot them, in large numbers, so that the remaning of the Army could slow the Russian progress there. Just so that the SS could escape to safety, they put so many German youths a sure target for the Russian guns, or killed the ones who did not want to put up the fight.
Each patriot for every other, unto the grave. The SS or Hitler's prodegies had by no means anything to do with patriotism.
The Grman people, commoners, had no idea till very late into the war, what had happened of their fellow countrymen- the German Jews, who starting one fine day, were started to be whisked away in batches from their neighbourhoods. All the Jews' bank accounts were stopped, the money transferred to the SS Accounts, their properties whisked away, their belongings in gold and other precious items confiscated and transferred to the SS hands. Then the Jews were told that they would be transferred and rehabilitated in some other part of the country and were led away from their homes. No one had any inkling as to what was awaiting them. And these were the German Jews, not Austrian or Polish, but German people. What a shame.
Thirteen million people murdered, 6 millions Jews, 5 millions Russians, and about 2 millions Germansm, physically handicapped, not deemed to be capable for work, or holding on to dissident views. Though these figures could vary- as far as I can remember Forsyth wrote. All this to satisfy Hitler's basic premise- that Germany could be made to rise again, only by first getting rid of its filth- and that included not just the Jews, but also the physically disabled Aryan Germans. The biggest coup he managed to pull off was, not much news about this crime went outside the concentration camps, let alone to the British. That was the grip Hitler had on Germany, millions murdered, yet without the commoners in Germany knowing of it. They never knew what happened to their Jew countrymen, untill the Russians, the Brits and the Americans discovered it all during the invasion.
Hitler was a coward to have committed suicide, had he been brave enough, he would have stood the trial at Neuremburg and defended his acts. The SS Nazi officers were cowards, had they been patriots they would not have scurried out of the country leaving the Germans to rot.
An Irving Wallace novel had an interesting plot, which actually was based on a different theory, that Hitler in fact did not die inside the bunker, rather had used one of his lookalikes and faked the world. This could be a figment of imagination, but there certainly is a group which still believes in the Nazi ideology and is still operational, although in fits and starts. The Baadear- Meinhouf group infact was believed by some to have links with the Nazis (The Hindu).
The bigger point is, that is what fundamentalism does. Not so long ago, India had had to hear similar sentiments, the kind sof ones that Hitler used to move the masses, before he came to power, in the 1920s. No one suspected what his real motive was, and when he assumed power, he started the biggest mass slaughter the world has ever known. In todays world, ultra- rightwing has no role to play.
And No, Indians would not allow Hitler and the likes inside their houses. |
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Shankar_Chakravarti
Shankar_Chakravart
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Re: Hitler: what do we know about him ?
«on:
09/06/05 at 12:42:19 » |
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[quote author=Rupam link=board=0011&num=1125263901&start=15#17 date=09/05/05 at 16:11:52]
An Irving Wallace novel had an interesting plot, which actually was based on a different theory, that Hitler in fact did not die inside the bunker, rather had used one of his lookalikes and faked the world.
[/quote]
Dear Rupam,
The name of the book you mention above, about Hitler’s deception about his and Eva Braun’s death on 30-04-1945, is THE SEVENTH SECRET, Sphere Books Limited, 1986, by Irving Wallace. But the controversy in this thread ( as understood by me ) is, whatever is told to us about Hitler is more of Allies ( mostly American’s ) propaganda, and not the absolute real truth. Whatever you have mentioned in the post are mostly known to us through books, movies, articles etc., and you know the rule “ Jo Jitaa Wohi Shikander” ( Isi baat pe koi shayeri yaad aaya to hame jaroor sunana !!). ;D ;D ;D
Please don’t misunderstand me or “kigoobe”, I don’t support Hitler for what all he had done, nor I have any picture of Hitler in my house, and I am sure the same is true for “kigoobe”, but we want to know if there is any other truth about Hitler which is shadowed by the Allies’ propaganda. ??? ??? ???
If you ask me, I believe that at least 75% of what we are forced to hear about Hitler is true, but there may be so many other incidents about the World War II, which is conveniently suppressed by the Allies’ to glorify their victory. Who will tell us, and who will believe that, against the widespread deep rooted hatred against Adolf Hitler ? ( That is quite natural, , even if 25 % of the propaganda is true !! No ? ) ::) ::)
But it is interesting to imagine the world today, had Hitler got the atom bomb first. Any guess ??
Sorry “confused”, I beg to differ from you. Our grand fathers would not have faced death, partly because of Subhas Chandra Bose and mainly because Hitler needed slaves for his kingdom. Otherwise, who will do the dirty jobs for him ?? ??? ???
Americans, Russians and French, he would have not trusted and killed to eliminate future revolt against Germany. So confused bhai, sure, you would have been alive, [b]but not sure[/b] if you would have used tissue papers yourself or served as laborer to manufacture tissue papers for cleaning German a#@$%^%$# . Please don’t take it seriously dear, normally you speak very authoritatively and decisively, so I am trying to see the lighter side. ;D ;D
No offence meant, only difference of opinion.
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