Do we have any identity

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Topic: Do we have any identity ???

Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/11/01 at 06:10:02 »

When my non bengali friends ask me .. I say I am a Bengali .. but again I do not associate myself with a rossogolla-loving, ganguli-adoring , fish-crazy, miserly-bengali from west bengal ...
Again I can , at no cost , pass myself as an aSSamese .. if i really have to explain .. then i have to tell them that i originally come from sylhett ... a place in bangladesh ... and that rings a bell in their minds ... about illegal immigrants in assam .. they make fun of me .. sometimes...

[b]Do we have any identity???[/b]

subir (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/11/01 at 07:34:57 »

Yes Silchari this is a very burning fact of our originality that we a4re Sylheti & unfortunately its now in Bangladesh. This ofcource gives us another title of being REFUGEE.

Now if u consider the maximum no. of affluent Bengalies in terms of heart, knowlege, money, its a fact that the Sylhetis are always way ahead of their other Bengali counterparts.

Recently I met a few Bangladeshis (all from Dhaka) and asked them regarding Sylhet and how are they regarded in Bangladesh. They were all of the view that Sylhetis are the most prosporous & educated among the Bangladeshis. Infact when a Sylheti goes out of his country he says he is from Sylhet & not Bangladesh.

But the core question of we being termed as illigal immigrants & all are due to the unwarranted news spread by these dirty Assamese population, they always feel the upperhand since their land was not partitioned. Ofcource these Assamese do not have any moral right to say such a thing when they themselves are trying to break the country.

So to fight this charge with any invisual of non-Bengali origin we need to explain some basic facts of misinformation. Why ??Our ex-PM Gujral, LK Advani both are Pakistani then. Explain to these people that if we can accept an Italian we can definately accept a Sylheti who faught the Independence war with more or equal vengence as any other.

Subir

Rupam (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/13/01 at 01:01:51 »

nice one...both of you
yeah ...quite a predicament that we have to face when explaining to people our origins.

hey Rupam, where do thee hail from?
-I am from a small place in Assam called Silchar, small in size big at heart.
oh, so you are an assameese?
-well, ahh...not really...you see, I am a Bengali
ohh...you are a bengali? so you must be having lots of sweets everyday, and pronouncing the 'a' as 'a', and must be having fishes every night...and every other thing that you Bengalis do?
-err, you see I am not that kind of a Bengali ...you know our breed is different from the genre that you normally identify a Bengali with...we are ...you see...a little different from the west bengalites...you know...we are exactly not their kind of Bengali..we are dfferent
So do you speak bengali?
-I do.
Do you speak assameese too?
-Yah, that too.
But you are neither a Bengali nor an assameese ? so what is your mother tongue?
-I said na, my mother tongue is Bengali, but a different version of the one that you will find the wbites speak...wspeak a differnt kind of Bengali...the kind that was very much prevelent in the undivided bengal before theprtition..
Oh, so you are an immigrant?
-Dhur bata chamar, bhag on tone , tui bujhte nay ami kita...ja beshi dimag chatis na...jabra public...and there ends the conversation.
for these people still associate us with the chunks of infiltrators that enter into the region everyday ...and there is no point trying to explain to them what we are...for these hotheads aint gonna listen

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Just not this not that speaks of lack of confi
«on: 08/24/01 at 08:28:22 »

;D
It seems denying some sterotypes like fish-eating, ganguly-loving and niggardiness constitute somebody's pride at oneself. This is simply fooling around with the idea that you are above all these and yet remain a bengali. well you speak assamese, hindi or english, that do not empower you to become any one of that. Do you think that by fooling around with multiple languages you could desist others from claiming that they are Bengalis, just because a afrodasiac like you does not approve of essential characteristics of being a bengali.

Also one should remember that by just denying the specific characteristics of an identity you do not become a universal human being as it merely hoodwinks others from asserting their identity. iN fact socially dominant identities in India have always deployed such wily means to liquidate smaller identities.

Do you have the courag to say that (1) assuming that you are a Hindu, you do not at all accept the tenets of Hindutva nationalism? and (2) assuming that you belong to some other religious community do you openly deny the bigotry and blind faith associated with it's institutionalized form? If you are true to your claims and not just a pretender comment on your own state of mind on your religiou affiliations to give us the feel that you are really universal and above petty features of an identity?

I will affirm that all of us as human being belong to a culture of reason which could make us critical insiders and not just pokers at others shortcomings.

Rupam (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/24/01 at 09:07:08 »

you build a castle solely on the basis of your assumptions and then you try forcing others live inside that...huh...boy! it cant get any more befuddling.
whatever arguments you have put forward are the childs of your assuming self...the kinda self that assumes only those things that suites its way of thought
huh...we had been called a spoilt generation. and then when out came a reply...there was a desperate attempt form the older generations at salvaging whatever little pride was left...and the reply had not ben countered with logic...rather with passion..with assumptions yet again, assumptions those weere deprived of any justification.
and here we see the reflection of it yet again...to no surprise at all... ones passimism taking its toll...
although a reply to this balderdash is not worth the burden, still lets try a terse one at that
firstly...no one here said that by denying those 'adorable' characteristics of the wbites..we were cnsidering ourseles as universal human bveings...there again was that weirs assumption at play...
second...'assuming that you are Hindu'...there it is !!!at least one assumption that s spot on!...yeah I do accept certain tenets of Hinduism...but certainley bnot all...and I do not support the bigotry either...thats categorical...
pretender? phew...no one who has ever known me would tell you that I were a pretender...n you would do well to take mme at my word...this one time...pretender...haha...boy!!! charges and baseless indictments...whats gonna happen to tis place?
and you are still free to make your assumptions...pretenders...cheerleaders...yeah...woh...whatever...

Jimut (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/25/01 at 13:18:38 »

Arrebaash,

Rupam Das in good form once again...bujha jaar kar kaam-kaaj beshi aar kaar kom.
Anyway, I think I too can put in my views on this...my experiences have also been similar but I think we need to look at this in a different way if we don't want to end up being exasparated as we are at present.
I ask everyone, how many of the pople who've asked you questions about your roots do you think are actually interested in your answer ? Or how many of them, however well-groomed and placed, can actually point out in a map of India where Assam is ? I'm sure most you end up with "very few." So why bother at all ? Agreed, we all would like to stress our identity and drive home the point that we are as good or even better than any others anywhere...but don't we not always end up either confusing the questioner or enraging ourselves due to their ignorance ?
I plainly say Bengali from Assam but my mother-tongue is a dialect ( which we have to accept , it is) just as Bhojpuri or Maithili is a dialect of Hindi or , for that matter, the Kannada that is spoken in North Karnataka is a dialect of the purer version popular in Mysore and Bangalore.Half the time, this explanation works and doesn't lead to any more open leading questions which we feel is our birth-right to answer in our favour.
I too fall in the brigade of people who don't like to be categorized in the same vein as the Bengali known the world-over but is it really worth the effort to try and explain all the complexities of our identity to a person who isn't even vaguely capable of understanding either the facts or the sentiments behind our explanations ?? My family has been in the same place in Assam for over 400 years, probably much before the families of anyone who visits this site shifted from Sylhet...how do think I can explain anyone that I cannot be termed as a immigrant from the erstwhile undivided India and that it was just an issue of convenience for my ancestors to shift wherever they liked ??
And honestly, are not all these attempts of ours just petty instances of "beating our own drums ??" If we are good, which I feel we are, we'll get noticed anyway...why are we always under pressure to load people with unwanted general knowledge about ourselves?? Even I invariably add the " It's a small place called Siclhar in southern Assam... " line...why can't we stop doing that ?? If people don't know about it, tough luck for them...I think that should be our attitude...when none of us are shy to say that we are from one of the lesser-known places in the country, why can't we go one step further and rub in the ignorance of others as well ??
Don't we know where each state in India is ? Don't we have a more-than-average knowledge of most places ?? I think we all do...so what's the point in getting frustrated about poeple who aren't that gifted ?
I feel our replies should be what we feel is the truth...If that makes people feel that we have just swung down from a tree, fair enough...I even tell people we used boats to travel to our floating schools where leeches thrive like mad and we eat anything that doen't bite in return...people either laugh it off and start taking you seriously or they know that you have an attitude...isn't that the end we are trying to achieve..recognition ??
If we think we should be taken more seriously we better start doing that ourselves first...I feel we all have big holes in our coat of self-pride...we should start mending them immediately. Period.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: IDENTITY GOES ON HOLIDAY
«on: 08/25/01 at 15:30:54 »

[quote author=Rupam link=board=0011&num=997528202&start=0#4 date=08/24/01 at 09:07:08]
you build a castle solely on the basis of your assumptions and then you try forcing others live inside that...huh...boy! it cant get any more befuddling.
whatever arguments you have put forward are the childs of your assuming self...the kinda self that assumes only those things that suites its way of thought
huh...we had been called a spoilt generation. and then when out came a reply...there was a desperate attempt form the older generations at salvaging whatever little pride was left...and the reply had not ben countered with logic...rather with passion..with assumptions yet again, assumptions those weere deprived of any justification.

YOUR IDEA OF LOGIC AND PASSION AS OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER BETRAYS YOUR OWN PREDICAMENT WHEN YOU DENY CHARACTERISTICS, GOOD OR BAD, THAT MAKE US KNOWN TO OTHERS. WHAT LOGIC IS THIS EXCEPT STULTIFICATION OF ONE"S OWN IDENTITY! AND WHAT PASSION IS THAT EXCEPT BECOMING DEAR TO THOSE WHO DEBUNK BENGALI IDENTITY. OF COURSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SUICIDAL.
and here we see the reflection of it yet again...to no surprise at all... ones passimism taking its toll...
although a reply to this balderdash is not worth the burden, still lets try a terse one at that
firstly...no one here said that by denying those 'adorable' characteristics of the wbites..we were cnsidering ourseles as universal human bveings...there again was that weirs assumption at play...

BY DECRYING BENGALI IDENTITY WHAT DO YOU ASSUME? DO YOU ASSUME SOMETHING MORE UNIVERSAL OR A NON-IDENTITY?
second...'assuming that you are Hindu'...there it is !!!at least one assumption that s spot on!...yeah I do accept certain tenets of Hinduism...but certainley bnot all...and I do not support the bigotry either...thats categorical...

BUT YOU DO NOT DARE TO DENY THAT YOU ARE NOT A HINDU. WOULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT KIND OF A HINDU YOU ARE AND YOU ARE NOT? THE WAY YOU DID WITH BENGALI IDENTITY.

pretender? phew...no one who has ever known me would tell you that I were a pretender...n you would do well to take mme at my word...this one time...pretender...haha...boy!!! charges and baseless indictments...whats gonna happen to tis place?

WHAT ELSE? HOW DO YOU CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE THAT IDENTITY WHICHEVER LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK? HOW DO YOU ASSUME THAT YOUR SPEAKING HINDI AND ASSAMESE MAKE YOU THAT? WHY SO MUCH BAD FAITH IN YOUR OWN IDENTITY?

and you are still free to make your assumptions...pretenders...cheerleaders...yeah...woh...whatever...

yeh woh ho ho! SOUNDS QUITE PRIMITIVE. YOU REQUIRE TO CROSSB EVOLUTIONARY STAGES BEFORE ASSUMING AN IDENTITY!
[/quote]

Saayan Choudhury (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/26/01 at 07:27:47 »

I stopped long ago trying to explain 'the identity'. Some success at explaining geographical factor can be got by drawing analogies .. "what Alice Springs is to Sydney is what Silchar is to Calcutta or Delhi .. etc." For personal identity .. don't know. A good friend, Pritam in his website www.syhlleti.com talks about "statenloss" .. some obscure :)term, which he can better explain.

I remember one particular incident .. I was on the Assam mailing list (US origin) when someone commented that Barak Valley was the cancer of Assam. I got a bit carried away (Jimut re ba, oi BP ota bari gesil :) ) and said something on the lines of "what Cachar is to Assam .. is maybe what Assam is to the rest of India .. if I have to follow your freq". Man, was that guy incensed. I left Assam mailing list since then.

Anyway, the point is we really don't know how to fix our locii(?) This discussion is interesting (and also heating up ;) ).. carry on.

I am also "touched" by the previous posts about the "spoilt generation of the '90s" thing. Why is it only the '90s? Why the specific attention to '90s ?? Come on ..'30s, '40s .. '60s, '70s and '80s are also after all "screwed up" .. err .. just like the '90s :P :P Go ahead man, call every Silchari spoilt :) :P

Rupam (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/28/01 at 04:57:50 »

It was said...

"YOUR IDEA OF LOGIC AND PASSION AS OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER BETRAYS YOUR OWN PREDICAMENT WHEN YOU DENY CHARACTERISTICS, GOOD OR BAD, THAT MAKE US KNOWN TO OTHERS. WHAT LOGIC IS THIS EXCEPT STULTIFICATION OF ONE"S OWN IDENTITY! AND WHAT PASSION IS THAT EXCEPT BECOMING DEAR TO THOSE WHO DEBUNK BENGALI IDENTITY. OF COURSE YOU ARE ALWAYS SUICIDAL."

Writing in capitals amounts to yelling...and the fundamentals cannot be alterled with any amount of yelling...hehe...
anyways...getting down to business, firstly I would like to state that, I am in no 'predicament' what so ever...and under no proclivity to deny 'our' characteristics as Re: Do we have any identity ???

Himadri (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/28/01 at 16:22:27 »

I don't feel that there is any reason for us Silcharis to deny our Bengali heritage because we are as much Bengalis as anybody else is, be it from West Bengal or Bangladesh.There are differences between all the different dialect speaking Bengali communities like the Mymensighis, Daccaiyyas etc. in just the same way as the Sylhetis, in both language and culure, but the differences are mostly subtle and none so severe as to force a sense of dichotomy on us.Bengalis form the largest community as a whole in all of the Indian subcontinent and so differences are bound to be there among the various sub-communities.

Identity is so subjective that you cannot quantify it to just one.I don't think any human being can.It depends on the perspective of the person as well as the one who wants to know.For an American, I am just an Indian and in some of the cases like the recent US census I am a South-Asian or something to that effect.If someone needs more qualification on it, then the layers can be peeled but this need not be construed as an identity crisis in any way.

-Himadri.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/30/01 at 14:05:05 »

???

Would you please let us know explicitly whether you consider Bengali speaking Muslims as part of Bengali community? If you consider them as identical with Bengali Hindus then there is no identity crisis. But the crisis comes in instances of misrecognition and denial of characteristics which some people out of their inferiority before otheres tries to hide. Later back at home they recover themselves from this state of deracination and claim back to be Bengalees.

Himadri (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 08/31/01 at 12:40:51 »

Ofcourse Bangla speaking Muslims are an integral part of the Bengali community.

Rupam (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/01/01 at 02:17:53 »

Nope, there was no denial. Misinterpretations suited to provide base to otherwise fragile arguments built on the basis of see-through assumptions are not going to get you anywhere. There was never said that we deny our being Bengalis. Why should we? We are as much Bengali as anyone else in the world. But yes, we will say if asked, that we are different from the WB ites,,, the simplest reason for that being that we indeed ARE different from one another.
And did I hear someone talking about the infy complex? haha Even Alfred Adler would have turned around in his grave probably smiling at the ignorence among the masses in relation to the term that he had coined.
infi complex? phew!!! comes again without any explanation. so very typical of the person. Can you give us one solid reason why we should have that complex?
Come on, we are all ears.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Apply Adler to your wretched self
«on: 09/01/01 at 10:13:10 »

Nuts, you talk of difference. In order to show the difference you deny those essential bengali characteristics that most bengalis have. you deny those just to be different and show that you are superior from your ilk. This is an extremely egotist and individualist strategy to cast yourself in a role that suits you in a competitive world. For that you look at those characteristics that are held by some corporate bugs as drawbacks of bengalis. You just believe in those doctored andmugged up tricks of keeping you upmarket. This is the garb that you need to cultivate in order to sustain your mobility in a different cultural terrain. Instead of influencing the atmosphere with the best of bengali values you prefer to prune them to suit yourself to the tempered environment.

Adler's inferiority complex and his turning in the grave are your hackneyed metaphors to turn away from your split self. Rather carry out an analysis of your tendentious self attenuation why actually you are prone to sheer off those esential markers of Bengali identity that constitute it. Why your responses are so numbed that you supress your own identity? Reading of Adler would be useful if you can apply it on your wretched soul. Otherwise your reading of Adler is too illiterate.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Apply Adler to your wretched self
«on: 09/01/01 at 10:13:32 »

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Apply Adler to your wretched self
«on: 09/01/01 at 10:14:30 »

subir (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/03/01 at 09:14:13 »

:o Are Bafre baf, ikhano dekhi tumul jhogra suru hoi gese, adha to eto hi-fi bhashae je bujau jai na.
Whatever the fight that is taking place between Rupam & Tonmoy, it does give a little more insight into two sides of the story. At times it did look Tommoy was having some reserved views about the Sylheti Muslims to which ofcource everyone is of ONE view that they r included. Let me bring home a point that we the Hindu Sylhetis are much less in no. than our Muslim counterparts, so it is more likely for them to face such a question hence we cannot neglect them at all.

Comming to the solution to this problem till now Jimut has the best answer, coz when put to practice it does give a convincing reply to the questioner since most of the questioners from India does recognise the various dialects of a language. As far as Silcharites abroad are concerned Himadri's logic seemed to be the best.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: PLEASE CORRECT YOURSELF
«on: 09/03/01 at 14:22:45 »

::) A proposition like, "We the Hindu Sylhetis are much less in Number than our Muslim Counterparts" Is thoroughly wrong, if not naive. Mark the use of the word "counterpart". If Himdri is right, them Sylheti Muslims are not our counterparts, nor even parts but they are one with us and vice versa. In fact if we consider that Bengali is a linguistic identity, then it is our responsibilty to define "we" in such a manner that does not keep any difference with anybody within.

But you talk in we vs. them in a broad way and feign this baseless fear that Hindus are less in number than Muslims, a thesis of Hindutva forces, who like Muslim fundamentalists, emphasize on the divide in religious lines. But Hindu fundamentalists put the thing in an inverse manner by stating that Muslims are larger in number than Hindus. You perpetuate the same trick here and this is what you call two sides of Identity.

As far Jimut's response is concerned, it was a messy reply on many counts. He takes pride in four hundred years roots. Just because his family is early settlers than others, so his logic is that they are not immigrants. As if being immigrants is a bad name and de re he accepts that being not immigrants they stand above others of the same identity. He is no sympathiser of the plight of the larger section of fellow human beings who are immigrants due to historical reasons. Rather he wants to salvage his own name and his family's name from the slur of being an immigrant. This is the attitude of undermining a section of fellow bretherens, which is also there in your comment on Numbers to generate a sense of insecurity among your bretherens through a vertical division between Hindus and Musims like immigrants and non-immigrants. You people are using such self-defeating description of yourself showing a poor commitment to the cultural, political, national and historical identity called Bengali. So it is not surprising that you are led to a blind alley by two other blind forerunners.
Please correct yourself and take a critical look at my arguments and do not reduce it to clay footed arguments of Jimut, Himadri or Rupam.

Saayan Choudhury (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/05/01 at 01:27:13 »

I have objection of being lumped as a Bengali, when someone is talking about the "generic" Bengali community. It is not a question of superiority, it is simply that the Bengalis from Barak valley are different from Bengalis - as people from other parts of India or the world sees them. I see nothing wrong if we excuse ourselves from the sweet-curry-eating, smooth-talking, conniving, robindro-shongeet-singing, and rather cold hearted Bengalis from WB, who the rest of the world think represents the entire Bengali culture.
Are we Borgs? Remember - "You will be assimilated, resistance is futile"? Is it wrong to be proud of one's language (dialect, as you might insist), one's place and one's society? I think I mentioned once before that my love for all these is unconditional. And the faith shall stand up to the facts.

Rupam (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/05/01 at 04:11:15 »

you talk of cultures and heritages, what do you mean when you say these? do you think eating rosogollas and adoring any Bengali just becaiuse he is a Bengali and not because of his abilities is true to the Bengali identity?
As i said earlier, we are different from the WBites...and it remains that we, for we indeed are different...and this does not mean we are disowning our Bengali identities...rather we are stressing on the varied aspects of this identity...if that were to be regarded as an identity crisis, then YOU too are faced with that, and so are those WBites.
That is where from the discussion erupted...that was the very genesis of this lengthy discussion. If we were not to be led into a blind alley by the so called blind people, then where are you leading us to? to the darkest alley? to those lands where passion rules more than logic? where hegemony is the law?
Why are we to believe that whatever the WBites do is true to the Bengali identity?
How do you associate eating fish and rasagollas to someone's identity? Why is it to be that speaking Bengali the way the WBityes do, should be taken as an yeardstick to measure one identity? We speak Bengali our own way, the way we love to...how does that contribute to our not being a BEngali? If I do not eat rasgollas, fishes and I do not listen to songs by the genius, do I cease being a BEngali? can you snatch my very identity away from me? you cant...only a fool would think he can, although no one is preventing you from proving yourself one.
If I were to adore Saurav I would do that for his cricketing prowess, not because he is a Bengali or not because he is not a Bengali. Why should we be expected to behave in the same way that WBites do? are they the watch dogs of Bengali identity? CERTAINLEY NOT. Identity can not be quantitive...irrespective of the number of people in a creed, a creed can always have seperate identity of its own, with differences both subtle and titanic. And this is what I stress on, leave the WBites on their own and let us dwell on our terms. Dont try to mingle these two identities into one, in which only their way will rule. Wat would then happen to our ways and beliefs? We dont need to behave in their way to be termed as Bengalis. For are trhe WBites not facing an identity crisis themselves these days? are they not maligning their own identity? are they not following the ways of the westerners? And even if they are doing, what is the harm in that if they can come up with an assimilation of the good points of varied identities and develop a new identity? (hope that did not appear as a contradiction to your cursory mind)Are they always expected to stick to age old beliefs and traditions? Can they not decide what is best suited to them given the changing world? If your answer is yes, if they can decide what is best for them, then we can as well. Can we not?
And on Adler and his thesis, reading Adler purposefully alone does not make one literate as proposed by you, rather reading it with an accommodating mind and not with a prejudiced mindset would make one literate. And getting back to that cliche 'Adler turning on his grave', yes thats commonplace, but then people like you who provoke such commonplace statements from others are commonplace too. An adage can become heckneyed, but its essence never does. what else? yeah...you understanding of certain people's messages here, was rather murky. May be you need a mind lift and freedom from the shackles of parochialism. May the Lord help ;Dyou.

Dimasa (Guest)
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Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/05/01 at 05:37:14 »

This is going too far folks....its better everybody cool down...
It is true that we are not fully bengali (this is what tonmoy wants us to understand)...we are a little branch out from the Tree called "true bengali culture" with which WBites are attached. Bengali culture is not static but its dynamic and its still evolving. Now bengali culture in WB is quite different from that of Bangladesh as of now because time has created a divide among us. Similarly history has created a blunder and we are forced to stay away from the true bengali culture but we have nevertheless developed it more and in the process created a small separate identity for ourselves.
Tonmoy should understand that although we are bengali but our language is a bit different like our eating habits and so inspite of being part of bengali culture we were able to have a separate identity.
We don't deny our bengali roots and origin but over a period of time we have moved away from it and thus were able to develop a new identity for us.This separate identity is not a threat to true bengali culture. infact it will enrich the bengali culture by its presence.
Did you know?? Among all the dialects of bengal only sylheti dialect has a script of its own.Its folk songs are more popular and varied. A normal WB person won't understand khati sylheti but he may understand other dialects. But the reverse is not true.

tonmoy bhattacharjee
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Re: Bengali Identity is not a Jackpot
«on: 09/05/01 at 13:30:22 »

::) All saayan, Rupam and Dimasa share a common ambiguity: they fail to distinguish that it is one thing to belong to Bengali identity but it is another thing to conceive oneself as different within the identity. Difference is concommitant with any claim of identity but not of identicality. Although we all perhaps belong to Bengali identity, yet we are diferent and never identical. In other words identity is not sameness but difference in it's manifest forms. So one should not confuse identity and identicality.

Now coming to each of individual responses I follow the order: Saayan, Rupam and Dimasa.

FOR SAAYAN: The idea that there is nothing wrong to excuse yourself from sweet-curry-eating etc. etc. admits that we have these characteristics and so we would like to excuse us from these. If we do not have them there is no question to excuse us from all these. Generic Bengali Community is also something like that as it exists and hence you like to object to it. Actually such objections are by nature trivial as not practising all these does not change your or mine identity from Bengali to something else. Your love for Sylheti and Sylheti culture is not contradictory or antagonistic to your being an integral part of larger generic identity as that does not constrain your practice of these lovable markers of your identity.

FOR RUPAM: You have miserably failed to carry Adlerian sel-analysis. It seems your ideas are vertically split between different than Wbites and the idea of a new identity. Both are not only contradictory but are at loggerheads when you say " Can you snatch my very identity from me?" Which is this identity: is it the rubble of WB identity and not yet grown new identity? It looks like an empty space, a dash, hung between two horns of a confusion. I will advise you to start with a positive definition of your identity ( possibly you can't start like that as you know almost nothing of Sylhet's history or Culture and that's the reason why you mention Rosgolla and saurav, you are just a poor mugger of some advertising features). In stead of talking of a new identity in the air( of course people like you do not fall within the historical definition of Bengali identity) you better spell out what you are. Do not somebody else's ( as you suppose) characteristics on you and then deny that you are not that. it's not a fancy dress competition.

FOR DIMASA: Good historical sense of how a small separate identity developed in us but it lacks conviction. If Sylheti is rich ( which I believe is) it won't have to pronounce difference with larger Bengali culture but it will exist in it's own speciality ( like the script that you refer to). As far as our predicament of identifying us as Bengali is concerned it's not a Jackpot that some hucksters could just deny it by pretending that we are different than them.

Saayan Choudhury (Guest)
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/05/01 at 20:12:36 »

I did not use "excuse" as in "sorry, please excuse me". I used "excuse" in place of "exclude". Most Silcharis are not sweet-curry-loving etc. etc. but people from other places of India or abroad do not know that. So, the attempt at "excusing".
I can see your point about the "part of a larger whole". Somehow, I feel reluctant to be this "integral part". Cannot relate to the larger identity and I think many people from Silchar feel the same. Perhaps, we should start a discussion thread why this is so.

Dimasa (Guest)
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/06/01 at 05:40:29 »

We are definitely different
tonmoy...by repeatedly saying that we belong to the true bengali culture over and over again won't make it so since its not like that.We don't belong to the "true" bengali culture.This is what i feel.I don't know whether you are a sylheti or a "true" bengali but I can tell you why i don't feel like a true bengali.
I don't use bangla language at home..i use sylheti to communicate with my parents, grandparents etc.I even use hindi or english to speak with my siblings.Even my accent is different while using bangla and anybody can tell me that i am not a bengali by my accent.
I don't eat too much fish (I am not saying eating too much is bad or something...but people generally associate fish eating behaviour with bengali people)and I can go without it for months.
I eat a lot of dry fish and the WB's bengalis don't associate themselves with this.Infact some even don't approve of its consumption.
The way food is prepared at any sylhetis home is different. We like it hot and spicy and not sweet (we don't put sugar in daal,maach etc...i am not criticizing it...its just an example of the difference in eating habits)
Any WB bengali in silchar is as foreign as he is in any other land.since he can't communicate in sylheti.But if he speaks up in bangla people will answer it in bangla.its the same in france where people will use french to communicate with everybody.If you ask them in english they will answer back in english..though not happily.
In my earlier reply i told you how our separate identity got developed. We never tried hard to make a separate identity but over a period of time it developed its own identity due to historical and geographical factors.Even a bangladeshi from sylhet generally says "I belong to sylhet in bangladesh".Similarly I say that i am a sylheti from assam. People generally think that either i am a bangladeshi or a assamese.They never think that i am a bengali from WB.
I am not saying that we have developed a complete separate identity but the process of separate identity has started and it will continue irrespective of whether we wish or not.So to say that we are pretending is not quite correct since this is the way we feel.Moreover sylhet has existed in its own right right from the beginning. The geographical entity which is sylhet was never a part of british bengal(which included todays WB,bangladesh,bihar,orissa).Infact sylhet was a part of assam.During partition it was not clear whether the majority is of muslims or of hindus so a plebiscite took place there in 1947 (your grandparents can tell you more about that) along with NWFP(North west frontier province). At both the places muslim majority was comfirmed and so these were cut off from india and handed over to pakistan. At that time assamese politicians in assam were quite happy to part away with it since this region was dominated by sylhetis. But even after partition south assam is still dominated by sylhetis.
So sylhet region has existed in its own right.. separate from bengal and even in future it will remain so.And since region influences the practices and culture of people so the culture and practices have also differed .This difference is there for everybody to see and by closing your eyes can you deny it tonmoy??

BTW we can have a poll here to see how many of us feel that we are different from WB's bengali.perhaps premashish can help us better by setting a poll and we will have the result.and to vote we should use our logins otherwise anybody can vote more than once.

Rupam Das
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity? we most certainy do
«on: 09/10/01 at 01:25:00 »

ha ha ...ones lack of comprehension is being attributed to someone else's (so called) lack of knowledge of history. a sullen attitude indeed. tonmoy, whenever you read a message, do read it carefully and do read it twice...that would help you save a lot of typing. ;D
now getting down to business, we certainley do have an identity, at no point of time has it been stated here that we deny being Bengalis, why should we? after all we arent ashamed at being Bengalis, for there are no reasons to be such.
But we certainly would like ourselves to be differentiated from the occult that the word 'Bengali' means to the world. For we have certain differences indeed, the one of language being very pronounced. And probably this single aspect, coupled with the geographic variations and the socio economic factors prevelent over the past century has introduced much differences among the factions. so there is no point in raising a brouhaha everytime we say that we are different from the WBites, when they tend to keep themselves aloof from the Syhlletis, why cant the Syhlletis ignore them and differentiate themselves? Infact, we can and we will. And there are no two ways about it.

ahmad (Guest)
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ??? Yea........
«on: 09/26/01 at 11:35:51 »

Mr. Silshari r u Bengali ?
Ofcourse you.
Cachari Bengali.
All Silcharis are Cachari.
Am I right ?

( Cachari Bang Khawar Jat, Egur Lagi Cachari Koite Doraw Ne ? E Bodnam To Onek Ager Taki Na? )
( Toby Bengali Bole Onnoder [Other Bengali] Kno Gali Daw Bhai ? Halar Hala Bengali.)

I know Silchar in Greater Cachar.
Am I wrong ?

What is your Mother Tongue ?
Bangla.(Cachari accent.)
( Like this Sylheti. Tomra Re Bolo, R Sylhetira
Ba / Bo Bole Sombodon Kore Ai To Partokko.)

R u remember this name : ----------------------------
" KAMLA VATTACHARJIA, "
" SHACHINDRA PAL,"
" KANAILAL NIYOGI, "
" SUKOMOL PUROKAYASTA,"
" HITES BISSAS,"
" TARANI DEVNATH, "
" CHANDICHARAN SUTTRADOR,"
" KUMUD RANJAN DAS."
" SATENRA DEV,"
" SUNIL SARKAR,"
" BIRANDRA SUTTRADOR."

" 19th May 1961 at 2:36 p.m. in Silchar Railway Station."

Think man who r u and what is your roots.

Why you debase to your community ?

Why you confused to your identity ?

Thanks Himaddri for your brave comments :
" Ofcourse Bangla speaking Muslims are an integral part of the Bengali community."

Ahmad,Badda,Dhaka,BD.

Rupam Das
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 09/27/01 at 01:16:59 »

why do people not understand that not even a simgle member has despised the BEngali language or the Bengalis, for most of the members , almost all, I can safely assume are Bengalis...so the question of frevouring a venom of hatered towards BEngalis does not arise at all...
why...why do you fail to see this?...that thepoint stressed here is the difference between two or more communities ...BEngalis of course...albeit Bengalis who adheare to different myriadness of the Bengali language...why does such a point, such a broad demarcation fail to get across? or is it a deliberate urge to argue that is at play? why dont you ahmad and the likes understand that the point we are discussing here is our identity, and the point being stressed is how this identity has evolved and has differentiated itself from the other identities within the Bengali communion? why should it take so much of head banging to see this point?
and the names that you have mentioned, those eleven lion hearts, yes they were fighting for the language, against some other language being imposed upon them, and they fought it their way, and they died martyrs...and they were not fighting for Syhlleti or Cachari or any other variant of Bengali, rather for the language itself, to save our linguistic identity, and unless we had an identity, there would have been nothing to fight for.
Bengali speaking muslims indeed are a part of the Bengali community, only an insane would raise an antithesis to that. But you got to realise that differences exist among the various subcommunities within the bigger domain of Bengali, and you cant turn a blind eye to that. And before you try to take this discussion into a devious route, ahmad, do retrospect and read through all the messages under this topic, probably that wouldhelp you to decide which face to argue for.

rudra
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/21/03 at 09:22:42 »

Hi this is rudra,
got some free time now.....so thought of going thru silchar.com..i am a sylleti originaly silchar.hope some of the guys form rec silchar still remember me?? Caught a glance of this discussion forum.This topic has often been troubling me..though i never mentioned it to anyone.....I feel any sylleti is free to identify himself any way he likes....be it sylleti or bengali or a assamese.....i very personally very much agree with Dimasa ,he said whatever i feel regarding this topic.....
actually whenever anyone asks me where i am from and my mothertounge...i say i am a sylleti from assam....that's it...they say they never heard about this particular language..i say that there are many other dialects or languages taht are not officialy recognized in india........(remamber that meties want a language of their own....even gurkhas want.....konkanese got their official status some months ago.....previously they were known as marathas).....so i think ther's no wrong in identifying myself as a sylleti......i pride in my distinct identity......... i am not asking other sylleties to do the same thing......but that's how i feel........and it always saves me useless queries regarding my identity.....and myself trying to explain them.....what do u say guys??

ciao..
rudra.....

ihatesylhatis
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/22/03 at 14:13:15 »

well if u r so affluent and have the best brains among bengalis then why cant u set up a good infrastructure for studies and industry or employment to your own community......why again you come to calcutta which in your words are children of lesser god......and if you are so good why doesnt sylhetis are so much well known to the other parts of the nation..leave alone international.....u people are real communial B_A_S_T_A-R_D_s...and the term refugee serves u right...go away go back to bangladesh thats what u deserve.....u ppl with a uncouth accent....

tomojit
tomojit

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/22/03 at 18:13:49 »

hey ihatesylhetis,
i think you have dared to go too far. history has played a dirty joke on sylhetis and thus even today we are engulfed with many problems. but remember one thing-we were always Indians and will always remain Indians and where does Bangladesh come into the picture? moreover what makes you
compare a population of only 30lakhs living in one corner of assam with a state of 9million bengalis?
for your information only a fool would go to kolkata for studies today because you believe in the policy of strikes and narebaazi " änd paint everything in bloody red.
now a thing or two about accent. in the last 55 years of independent india you people have failed to speak our national language properly and when it comes to speaking english your accent would even confuse shakespeare. come to silchar and we will impart you a few lessons on hindi so that you people can do something worthwhile outside WB.
wakeup from your slumber in the cushion of rasagollas and macherjhols and realise the fact that you have emerged as a quarrelsome, miserly , messy, onlyfoodloving community.

HAPPY READING

Rupam Das
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/22/03 at 20:48:53 »

this is for that creep who calls himself/herself 'ihatesyhlleti' here in this message board.

dhuur betaa/betii chamar/chamari
tor kolkatat kiguu jay rey porat? halaa kumbokhornor dol...kolkatat Silcharer public aijkail khali overnight transition err lagii jay ...for us its nothing more than a overnight transition camp...
for most of us...calcutta these days means either howrah or dumdum ...nothing more than that...gone are those days when people in Silchar used to think that calcutta opens up different avenues for oneself...educational or otherwise4...
its your fault,...its your sluggishness andits your aversion to change that has caused a delapidation in the way calcutta is perceived by the rest of the nation today...what the heck do you have to boast of?
talk of mentality and a typical calcuttan would remind one of a rehmani keeda...
tyalk of intellect and a typical calcuttan would remind one of a snob...
talk of culture and a typical calcuttan would remind one of confused bugger

and still you people boast...for you the surest way to glory is belittling others...and basking in your vanity you think that is the best route....
but then when someone abuses bengalis...it doesnt concern me a bit...because I know that its people like you...not every calcuttan ...but a typical ...and I emphasize a TYPICAL calcuttan is the one that his abuses are directed at...
people from other parts of west bengal ...are generally much more accommodating and much more rational than you bunch of snobs are ...
take a look around...and you will know where you stand ...or rather where you cripple...
seeya

Bill(William) from Bilpar
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 03:23:27 »

What u people gonna do is now get some real clean water, maybe be Bisleri or something like that and clean up the walls. Of late a lot of mud-slinging has hapenned and dirt is all around. ;D
There's no point in debating it out as to are we better than our brethern on the other side of the western border of Bangladesh - a land from which most of the debators hail. Whether that be the cruel joke of history of whether we lost out vis-a-vis the 'Cosmic Blueprint' bears no consequence. What we are today are what we have to contend with and not contemplate.
;D ;D
Mr Rupam Das has said something like 'Kolkata is to us no more than Dumdum or Howrah' .That is essence captures our prediliction.Kolkat is our legal and the most prominent gateway to the world and u can't escape it Mr Das. Of course we can slide away under the barbed wires at the international borders just as cats and dogs cross international borders, but Mr Das is an honourable Sylheti full of pride(for nothing- Dire Straits) and vanity and a loud mouth to even try that. So Mr Das Kolkata's ur interface to the world. This is ur short-sightedness(myopia) due to which u can't observe beyond that.
There's no point highlighting the ills afflicting other people when the speakers have millions of their own. ;D "Chalni Boley Sunch tor podey futo" ;D ;D ;D . Count ur holes before they crack Mr Das and team.
I work for Dey's Medical and could count me worthy if Mr Das would procure his lubricants from us.What's ur choice ...Keo Karpin Hair Oil... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rupam Das
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 06:35:16 »

no wonder you work for dey's medical...you would not find a better place all your life to work at...
the above statement is not meant to be disparaging but your proclamation seemed to have carried a little bit of pride in your work organization and hence the opener was meant to rub you a little on the wrong side just to get you to rethink whether such proclamations are worthwhile...pun coincidental but intended

and yes to me calcutta is nothing more than just a transition camp...so that I can get my connecter to otherparts of the country...gateway...well nah...I would define a gateway as something which opens broader avenues not just for physical access but for adler's self actualizing goals.....that explains the issue of beiung myopic...and that also is a pointer ...a dangling one rather I would say as to who between the two of us is myopic...

also ayou mentioned that calcutta is my interface to the world...and that is precisely what I said...for me calcutta is either howrah or dumdam...other that that I calcutta to me has absolutely no value whatsoever...plain and curt...to me its only a port that I use to gain access to other parts of the country...I have never looked forward to calcutta for employments and other avenues nor will ever do...for a similar man's perspective, as far as any sane mind would peobably call that pragmatism rather than shortsightedness...unlike you did...ofcourse we could not have expected any better than that...probably you have redefined the opthalmologists' jargon

I would agree with only the literary essence of your last statement in the opening paragraph ' what we have we have to contend with and not contemplate' ...as I said only in the literary sense...not the spirit in which you said it...that again is a pointer to the degree of myopia that the two of us have...no pun intended...in this care is purely coincidental....

running the risk of oversimplification, I would like to rephrase the above statement as' our belongings should not make us contended, rather in order to stay competitive in this changing world, we should constantly contemplate to get better day by day'
and unlike irretional minds, that should be not through disparaging others but rather through self improvement...
shine on

yes, the team.
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 07:54:03 »

What started with s'thing else, has now become another "mancha" for u michhilwallas, as everyone knows kolkata people start blabbering as soon as they hear any topic, no matter whether its intended for them or not. Look at the topic once again carefully and try to understand ( of course if ur brain has nething better to offer to anyone other than dey's pharma company)!!!!!!
they say that people from small towns usually have a narrow mind, thanx a bunch for proving them wrong .
Ur behaviour shows how sick ur mind is, for i doubt whether any syhlleti wud ever go to any kolkata site to spit at kolkattans.

ya, and mr. william, we have much better places in the world to sit and write this, than WB .if u r really sitting in bilpar and writing this, how can u make fun of someone going to kolkata to catch a flight??

Bill(William) from Bilpar
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 11:26:49 »

Now that the feathers are roundly ruffled ...the team is rallying around full-force around our Honourable Mr. Das, however, pity be on them for they write gibberish...and do have junk up there ,where it all matters...ur grey cells are turning yellow and they are stinking ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Contemplate and chalk out ur future and the future of the people of the small town on the eastern side of Bangladesh where people "usually have a narrow mind"(to quote the mouthpiece of the team)...Any ideas on how to do that ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
;D ;D
Moral:Don't bite the hand that feeds you! :)

asiti
asiti

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 12:19:49 »

Well well well....

The moral is when one punches another, the other one also punches back. Result is nothing.

Let us go back to the initial question. Do we have the identity?

Yes ofcourse. Why not? It is all in the mind. I identify myself as a Sylheti, when it is required. Otherwise I am just another human being communicating to another human being through the language of culture.

I would like to tell "Bill" that in the pre-independence era, LAL-BAL-PAL was a famous phrase in North India. Along with Lala Lajpat Rai and Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Bipin Chandra Pal became a flag bearer of freedom struggle. He came from Sylhet. Please do not call us "people from Bangladesh". We were never a part of East Bengal. We were the Bengali speaking district of Assam. It was a cruel twist of history that the Sylhet became a part of East Pakistan.

So what! This fate was also shared by the Lahori's. The great cricketer Lala Amarnath was also from Lahore. Sylhetis are also not crumbled into a small community [as might be known elsewhere] in a place in southern Assam. Sylhetis [Please read: the Indian Sylhetis, I do not want to comment on the citizens of any other country] are everywhere, contributing to the world in different capacities. You may kindly see my identity in the profile, and you would see that I do not stay in Assam.

Let us not start hurting the little little egos of each one of us. I would reiterate the response to the issue of this section by saying that...YES, WE HAVE MADE OUR IDENTITY IN DIFFERENT FIELDS OF OUR ENDEAVOURS, SMALL OR BIG, NOT AS A SHELLED LINGUISTIC COMMUNITY BUT AS AN ALL-ACCEPTING BREED OF PEOPLE WORKING AS WORLD CITIZENS.

silcharor_maiya
silcharor_maiya

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 12:56:58 »

bravo asiti da bravo....... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
er thaki bhala jukti hoite parena amrar ei bill babur lagi...

princy
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 15:07:44 »

one's identity means a lot to one but when u r outside india u feel more about it .Everytime when u tell that u r bengali everyone takes u certain for being a bengali from calcutta...then this explaining comes in picture ...
"no i am from silchar ,not an assamese nor even from calcutta ....we r different ...."
well i explain them being from silchar and i relate myself with Bangladesh...that stuff about sylhet....(although i'm not an refugee) people may think i may be a refugee ...let them SO WHAT ...well according to me everyone thinks so differently about the refugees ... ...but hey,donot u think and feel about the plight of the refugees ...see no one happily leaves one's land ,they do so under very unavoidable situation...
moreover i rather explain myself being an indian ...because if u r from india.....u will be always asked "whether u r from north india or south india....so why donot u consider yourself as an indian first ....

tomojit
tomojit

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/23/03 at 18:12:16 »

a little piece of information for mr. bill who doesn't dare to unearth his/her identity-
talking about bangladeshi contacts please note-
1. the man who ruled you for 20years mr. jyoti basu still has a house and some property in barodi (65kms. from dhaka) in bangladesh.
2. your congress boss priyaranjan das munshi is a bangladesh born.
3. only bjp mp from wb tapan sikidar is also bangladesh born.
4. your genuine product? - mad mamata bannerjee.
expecting a prompt reply.

kalyan
Guest

Re: Do we have any identity ???
«on: 01/24/03 at 02:23:43 »

I was