Are you a Secularist Then please answer these que

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Topic: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these que

Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these que
«on: 06/02/04 at 15:49:30 »

Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these questions

1. There are nearly 52 Muslim countries. Show one Muslim country
which provides Haj subsidy.

2. Show one Muslim country where Hindus are extended the special
rights that Muslims are accorded in india?

3. Show one Muslim country which has a Non-Muslim as its President or
Prime Minister.

4. Show one country where the 85% majority craves for the indulgence
of the 15% minority.

5. Show one Mullah or Maulvi who has declared a 'fatwa' against terrorists.

6. Hindu-majority Maharashtra, Bihar, Kerala, Pondicherry, etc. have
in the past elected Muslims as CMs; Can you ever imagine a Hindu
becoming the CM of Muslim - majority J&K?

7. Today Hindus are 85%. If Hindus are intolerant, how come Masjids
and Madrassas are thriving? How come Muslims are offering Namaz
on the road? How come Muslims are proclaiming 5 times a day on
loudspeakers that there is no God except Allah?

8. When Hindus gave to Muslims 30% of Bharat for a song, why should
Hindus now beg for their sacred places at Ayodhya, Mathura and Kashi?

9. Why temple funds are spent for the welfare of Muslims and
Christians, when they are free to spend their money in any way they
like?

10. When uniform is made compulsory for school children, why there is
no Uniform Civil Code for citizens?

11. In what way, J&K is different from Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu or
Uttar Pradesh, to have article 370?

12. Why Gandhiji supported Khilafat Movement (nothing to do with our
freedom movement) and what in turn he got?

13. Why Gandhiji objected to the decision of the cabinet and insisted
that Somnath Temple should be reconstructed out of public fund, not
government funds. When in January 1948 he presurrised Nehru and
Patel to carry on renovation of the mosques of Delhi at government
expenses?

14. If Muslims & Christians are minorities in Maharashtra, UP, Bihar
etc., are Hindus not minorities in J&K, Mizoram, Nagaland,
Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya etc? Why are Hindus denied minority rights in
these states?

15. Do you admit that Hindus do have problems that need to be

recognized. Or do you think that those who call themselves Hindus are
themselves the problem?

16. Why post-Godhra is blown out of proportion, when no-one talks of
the ethnic cleansing of 4 lakh Hindus from Kashmir?

17. In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in
pakistan was about 24%. Today it is not even 1%. In 1947, the
Hindu population in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) was 30%. Today it is
about 7%. What happened to the missing Hindus? Do Hindus have human rights?

18. In contrast, in India, Muslim population has gone up from 10.4% in
1951 to about 14% today; whereas Hindu population has come down
from 87.2% in 1951 to 85% in 1991. Do you still think that Hindus are
fundamentalists?

19. Do you consider that - Sanskrit is communal and Urdu is secular,
Mandir is Communal and Masjid is Secular, Sadhu is Communal and
Imam is Secular, BJP is communal and Muslim league is Secular, Dr. Praveen
Bhai Togadia is ANTI-NATIONAL and Bhukari is Secular, Vande Matharam is
communal and Allah-O-Akbar is secular, Shriman is communal and Mian is
secular, Hinduism is Communal and Islam is Secular, Hindutva is communal and
Jihadism is secular, and at last, Bharat is communal and Italy is Secular?

20. When Christian and Muslim schools can teach Bible and Quran, Why
Hindus cannot teach Gita or Ramayan?

21. Abdul Rehman Antuley was made a trustee of the famous Siddhi
Vinayak Temple in Prabhadevi, Mumbai Can a Hindu - say Mulayam or
Lallo - ever become a trustee of a Masjid or Madrassa?

22. Dr. Praveenbhai Togadia has been arrested many times on flimsy
grounds. has the Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid, Delhi, Ahmed Bhukari
been arrested for claiming to be an ISI agent an d advocating partition of
Bharat?

23. When Haj pilgrims are given subsidy, why Hindu pilgrims to
Amarnath, Sabarimalai & Kailash Mansarovar are taxed?
A Muslim President, A Hindu Prime Minister and a Christian Defence
Minister running the affairs of the nation with a unity of purpose.
Can this happen anywhere, except in a HINDU NATION - BHARAT ?
Later on please forward it to as many Hindus - Indians as possible

Vandhe Matharam

Dimasa
Dimasa

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/02/04 at 18:56:24 »

A Roman Catholic giving way to a Sikh to be appointed as Prime Minister by a Muslim President in a Hindu Majority Nation. If this isn't Secularism what is ???

sunny123
sunny123

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 10:41:45 »

DEAR FRIEND....

PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE....

It takes 10/15 min to read this article but once you read you won't regret that 10/15 min, you will regret how Indian population is manipulated by Congress.
________________________________________________________________________

At the very beginning of his book, "The Nehru Dynasty", astrologer K.N.Rao mentions the names of Jawahar Lal's father and grandfather. Jawahar Lal's father was believed to be Moti Lal and Moti Lal's father was one Gangadhar Nehru.

And we all know that Jawahar Lal's only daughter was Indira
Priyadarshini Nehru; Kamala Nehru was her mother, who died in
Switzerland of tuberculosis. She was totally against Indira's proposed marriage with Feroze. Why? No one tells us that

Now, who is this Feroze? We are told by many that he was the son of the family grocer. The grocer supplied wines, etc. to Anand Bhavan, previously known as Ishrat Manzil, which once belonged to a Muslim lawyer named Mobarak Ali. Moti Lal was earlier an employee of Mobarak Ali. What was the family grocer's name?

One frequently hears that Rajiv Gandhi's grandfather! was Pandit Nehru. But then we all know that everyone has two grandfathers, the paternal and the maternal grandfathers. In fact, the paternal grandfather is deemed to be the more important grandfather in most societies. Why is it
then no where we find Rajiv Gandhi's paternal grandfather's name? It appears that the reason is simply this. Rajiv Gandhi's paternal grandfather was a Muslim gentleman from the Junagadh area of Gujarat.

This Muslim grocer by the name of Nawab Khan, had married a Parsi woman after converting her to Islam. This is the source where from the myth of Rajiv being a Parsi was derived. Rajiv's father Feroze was Feroze Khan before he married Indira, against Kamala Nehru's wishes. Feroze' mother's family name was Ghandy, often associated with Parsis and this was changed to Gandhi, sometime before his wedding with Indira, by an affidavit.

The fact of the matter is that (and this fact can be found in many writings) Indira was very lonely. Chased out of the Shantiniketan University by Guru Dev Rabindranath himself for misdemeanor, the lonely girl was all by herself, while father Jawahar was busy with politics, pretty women and illicit sex; the mother was in hospital. Feroze Khan, the grocer's son was then in England and he was quite sympathetic to Indira and soon enough she changed her religion, became a Muslim woman and married Feroze Khan in a London mosque. Nehru was not happy; Kamala was dead already or dying. The news of this marriage eventually reached Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. Gandhi urgently called Nehru and practically ordered him to ask the young man to change his name from Khan to
Gandhi.
It had nothing to do with change of religion, from Islam to Hinduism for instance. It was just a case of a change of name by an affidavit. And so Feroze Khan became Feroze Gandhi.

The surprising thing is that the apostle of truth, the old man soon to be declared India's Mahatma and the 'Father of the Nation' didn't mention this game of his in the famous book, 'My Experiments with Truth'. Why? When they returned to India, a mock 'Vedic marriage' was instituted for public consumption. On this subject, writes M.O. Mathai (a longtime private secretary of Nehru) in his renowned (but now suppressed by the GOI) 'Reminiscences of the Nehru Age' on page 94, second paragraph: "For some inexplicable reason, Nehru allowed the marriage to be performed according to Vedic rites in 1942. An inter-religious and inter-caste marriage under Vedic rites at that time was not valid in law. To be legal, it had to be a civil marriage. It's a known fact that after Rajiv's birth Indira and Feroze lived separately, but they were not divorced. Feroze used to har ass Nehru frequently for
money and also interfere in Nehru's political activities. Nehru got fed up and left instructions not to allow him into the Prime Minister's residence Trimurthi Bhavan. Mathai writes that the death of Feroze came as a relief to Nehru and Indira. The death of Feroze in 1960 before he could consolidate his own political forces, is itself a mystery. Feroze had even planned to remarry.

Those who try to keep tabs on our leaders in spite of all the
suppressions and deliberate misinformation, are aware of the fact that the second son of Indira (or Mrs. Feroze Khan) known as Sanjay Gandhi was not the son of Feroze. He was the son of another Moslem gentleman, Mohammad Yunus. Here, in passing, we might mention that the second son
was originally named Sanjiv. It rhymed with Rajiv, the elder brother's name. It was changed to Sanjay when he was arrested by the British police in England and his passport impounded, for having stolen a car.
Krishna Menon was then India's High Commissioner in London. He offered to issue another passport to the felon who changed his name to Sanjay.
Incidentally, Sanjay's marriage with the Sikh girl Menaka (now they call her Maneka for Indira Gandhi found the name of Lord Indra's court dancer rather offensive!) took place quite surprisingly in Mohammad Yunus' house in New Delhi. And the marriage with Menaka who was a model (She had modeled for Bombay Dyeing wearing just a towel) was not so ordinary either. Sanjay was notorious in getting unwed young women pregnant. Menaka too was rendered pregnant by Sanjay. It
was then that her father, Colonel Anand, threatened Sanjay with dire consequences if he did not marry her daughter. And that did! the trick. Sanjay married Menaka.

It was widely repor ted in Delhi at the time that Mohammad Yunus was unhappy at the marriage of Sanjay with Menaka; apparently he had wanted to get him married with a Muslim girl of his choice. It was Mohammad Yunus who cried the most when Sanjay died in the plane accident. In Yunus' book, 'Persons, Passions & Politics' one discovers that baby
Sanjay had been circumcised following Islamic custom, although the reason stated was phimosis. It was always believed that Sanjay used to blackmail Indira Gandhi and due to this she used to turn a blind eye when Sanjay Gandhi started to run the country as though it were his personal fiefdom. Was he black mailing her with the secret of who his
real father was? When the news of Sanjay's death reached Indira Gandhi, the first thing she wanted to know was about the bunch of keys which Sanjay had with him.

Nehru was no less a player in producing b!astards. At least one case is very graphically described by M. O. Mathai in his "Reminiscences of the Nehru Age", page 206. Mathai writes: "In the autumn of 1948 (India became free in 1947 and a great deal of work needed to be done) a young woman from Benares arrived in New Delhi as a sanyasin named Shraddha Mata (an assumed and not a real name). She was a Sanskrit scholar well versed in the ancient Indian scriptures and mythology. People, including MPs, thronged to her to hear her discourses. One day S. D. Upadhyaya, Nehru's old employee, brought a letter in Hindi from Shraddha Mata. Nehru gave her an interview in the PM's house. As she departed, I noticed (Mathai is speaking here) that she was young, shapely and beautiful. Meetings with her became rather frequent, mostly after Nehru finished his work
at night. During one of! Nehru's visits to Lucknow, Shraddha Mata turned up there, and Upadhyaya brought a letter from her as usual. Nehru sent her the reply; and she visited Nehru at midnight... Suddenly Shraddha Mata disappeared.

In November 1949 a convent in Bangalore sent a decent looking person to Delhi with a bundle of letters. He said that a young woman from northern India arrived at the convent a few months ago and gave birth to a baby boy. She refused to divulge her name or give any particulars about herself. She left the convent as soon as she was well enough to move
out but left the child behind. She however forgot to take with her a small cloth bundle in which, among other things, several letters in Hindi were found. The Mother Superior, who was a foreigner, had the letters examined and was told they were from the Prime Minister. The person who brought the letters surrendered them... "I (Mathai) made discreet inquir! ies repeatedly about the boy but failed to get a clue about his
whereabouts. Convents in such matters are extremely tightlipped and secretive. Had I succeeded in locating the boy, I would have adopted him. He must have grown up as a Catholic Christian blissfully ignorant of who his father was."

Coming back to Rajiv Gandhi, we all know now that he changed his so called Parsi religion to become a Catholic to marry Sania Maino of Turin, Italy. Rajiv became Roberto. His daughter's name is Bianca and son's name is Raul. Quite cleverly the same names are presented to the people of India as Priyanka and Rahul. What is amazing is the extent of our people's ignorance in such matters. The press conference that Rajiv Gandhi gave in London after taking over as prime minister of India was very informative. In this press conference, Rajiv boasted th! at he was NOT a Hindu but a Parsi. Mind you, speaking of the Parsi religion, he had no Parsi ancestor at all. His grandmother (father's mother) had turned Muslim after having abandoned the Parsi religion to marry Nawab Khan. It is the western press that waged a blitz of misinformation on behalf of Rajiv. From the New York Times to the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, the big guns raised Rajiv to heaven.

The children's encyclopedias recorded that Rajiv was a qualified Mechanical Engineer from the revered University of Cambridge. No doubt US kids are among the most misinformed in the world today! The reality is that in all three years of his tenure at that University Rajiv had not passed a single examination. He had therefore to leave Cambridge without a certificate. Sonia too had the same benevolent treatment. She
was stated to be student in Cambridge. Such a description is calculated to mis! lead Indians. She was a student in Cambridge all right but not of the University of Cambridge but of one of those fly by night language schools where foreign students come to learn English. Sonia was working as an 'au pair' girl in Cambridge and trying to learn English at the same time. And surprise of surprises, Rajiv was even cremated as per vedic rites in full view of India's public.

This is the Nehru dynasty that India worships and now an Italian leads a prestigious national party because of just one qualification - being married into the Nehru family. Maneka Gandhi itself is being accepted by the non-Congress parties not because she was a former model or an animal
lover, but for her links to the Nehru family. Now we have an Italian woman trying to become the Prime Minister of India and there are still a large majority of people in this country who are more than willing to have a leader from the so called Gandhi family!!

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.............. YOURS........ Sunny.....

mrinmoyb
mrinb

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 12:45:13 »

Hey! gr8.....mind blowing....so much of facts n figures....but, i need couple of hrs to go thru this and write something as reply....but, that's really a gr8 piece of work n patience....i would really appreciate that.....keep up with ur good work...

sunny123
sunny123

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 12:51:55 »

DEAR Mrinmoyb,

my work will be great only when people like u will be ready to read the articles.....

i am telling... you will definitely like the article after reading and you will not regret for half an hour u spent in reading that.....

.......... suman......

pheluda
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 16:06:13 »

What is going on is pseudo-secularism and they boast of being the secular party of India. Also think:

Why BJP is said to be seen as a party of the upper class (read educated class)????? Why the people starting a BJP unit are always (ya almost always) a teacher or a lawyer or doctor or.. 'something' ?

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 17:25:52 »

Those who want the country to be a seculiarist country better leave India forever. India is in fact a country with a very complex society, diversfied ethnics, a home or shelter for peace-loving religious figures and the likes. It's in fact a bedrock of democracy. So, it remains to be a pluratistic society. It cements the bonds and helps the people of varying ethnics understand the meaning of living side by side. I am sure those people who are indulged in extreme religious or polical veiws will be dealt dearly or harshly to make sure they understand national integrity and patriotism must remain intact and must be above religions and politics.

Amitav
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/03/04 at 19:59:35 »

I would like to add another fact about Jawahar Lal Nehru where in he had a sexual relationship with Lord Mountbatten's wife.
Jawaharlal was really the kingpin of all problems in India starting with Kashmir problem as one fo them.

As far as Indira Gandhi is concerned ,I will keep the above info aside and consider her a good leader as she has led India to a wonderful victory in 1971.And Sanjay Gandhi was good enough to deal toughly with Abdullah Bukhari.
Rajiv Gandhi has done only one good thing probably by mistake i.e he was responsible for today's shining IT industry in India.As he did'nt have the vision for 20 years .

Other than that he was good for nothing.

Optimist
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/04/04 at 16:49:05 »

Dirty campaign full of hatered and poison is the hallmark and mindset of some specific brand of people.

Learn to take your defeat gracefully.

How about some 'atmachintan' ? ;)

bokka
bokka

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/04/04 at 19:07:44 »

Humanity Vs. Religion....

Secularism Vs. Hinduthva...

silcharibhai1
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/05/04 at 09:54:11 »

Hi All,
let us be like the Israeli poplulation who are very innovative
minded and hence very developed though their neighbours are screwed by everyone .
So we should not be worried about growing Muslim Population in India compared to Hindus.We should strive to develop our Hindu,Sikh,Buddhist.... and non-jehadi Muslims to such an extent that the Jehadis will be left out in all fields and who will be taken care by our police forces,army etc like we are doing it in J&K.
See at pakistan who thought that their Jehad in Kashmir will make India financially weak and they can take it easily.
But India started shining from 1991(after insurgency started in Kashmir).
Look at Gujarat which is one of the most developed states in India and how they screw up the Jehadis financially
but have lot of Muslims who will follow the Gujarat Govt. and develop themselves.

darshonik
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/06/04 at 16:21:22 »

Very good work of fiction Sunny bhai. Here is one more scoop for you. Although Indira Gandhi went to Oxford, she never completed her education. I found it in one of her biographies. You may want to add it to your article too. It is a known fact and her party gives it a twist by saying that she was too eager to go home and join the freedom movement. In the same biography I found that when Mrs. Gandhi stopped favouring Mathai, who was very close to Gandhi family, he went aroung and spread many lies(?) about Gandhi family. He even said that he had a lustful relationship with Mrs. Gandhi. But most Historians reject his claims.

Nitaipil-babu, Your post is interesting too. But I have a comment on 85% Hindus vs 14% Muslims. See, that 14% is united. 87% Hindus on the other hand are divided among various casts and creeds. In the states that you have mentioned, UP Bihar Maharastra etc, caste rivalry has gone to whole new level. Earlier upper castes Hindus didnot consider others as humans and now, thanks to quota system etc, reverse castism is rising too. I have noticed that in Marathi mandals there are sharp division of castes. One friend of mine told me that they don't quite socialise with each other. I have a Telegu Brahmin collegue who has a 3 yr old daughter. She already started teaching her that "we marry only Indians and prefer our own caste". Castism is worst among Biharies. Now this is happening US where Indian as a whole are less than 1% of the population. I can only imagine the polarisation back home. You may see very little of this in cosmopolitan Metros. But you will feel it as you cross the city limits. Thanks to many reformers, this is less prevalant among urban Bengalis though not totally absent.
Hence, that 87% is not actually 87%. Effectively it is always less than 14%. This is the reason why British ruled us for 300 year and also should answer almost all your questions.

Vande-mataram

Amitav
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/06/04 at 17:08:09 »

Hi all,
I feel as far as the caste problem is concerned,currently and previously the lower caste people got converted to Islam and Chirstianity to get rid of the caste system.
The RSS people and VHP comes to the picture only when the conversion takes place and which is not a solution.
The best solution will be to encourage the lower caste people to follow the example of the great Babasaheb Amberkar and convert to Buddhism which is is much better alternative then the outside religion(Islam and Christianity).

Jinnah has offered Pak's Premiership offer to Dr Ambedkar
for converting to Islam which would have encouraged all lower caste people to convert to Islam and thus increase India's Islam population to at least 50 percent.

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/08/04 at 03:21:15 »

Converting and being converted into foreign (outside) religions is not really a solution to poverty problem except for some reasons such as marrying the bride/groom. All religions are the same. But, the people fail to understand themselves. Ignorance is the source of all the problems that we are visiting everyday on the earth. God is really laughong at us doing something that seems out of context. Jinnah was not really an Islam in deep sense. He was a currupt. No wonder about that. He was supposed to give up his desire about wanting an Indian PM for the sake of being a good Islam and also for the well-being of the greater Indian subcontinent. He was not. Mahtma Gandhi was just the opposite. What a contrast! Learning something even more is the only way to get oneself out of proverty, prejudice or pervasiveness.

xyz
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/09/04 at 16:39:19 »

actually it was tringuler love ..
lord mountbatin with pandit nehru(gay relation)
pandit nehru with lady mountabatin

[quote author=Amitav link=board=0011&num=1086182370&start=0#7 date=06/03/04 at 19:59:35]
I would like to add another fact about Jawahar Lal Nehru where in he had a sexual relationship with Lord Mountbatten's wife.
Jawaharlal was really the kingpin of all problems in India starting with Kashmir problem as one fo them.

As far as Indira Gandhi is concerned ,I will keep the above info aside and consider her a good leader as she has led India to a wonderful victory in 1971.And Sanjay Gandhi was good enough to deal toughly with Abdullah Bukhari.
Rajiv Gandhi has done only one good thing probably by mistake i.e he was responsible for today's shining IT industry in India.As he did'nt have the vision for 20 years .

Other than that he was good for nothing.

[/quote]

Amitav
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/10/04 at 20:14:41 »

Hi XYZ,
It may not be a 100 percent Triangular love affair because
if Jawaharlal and Mountbatten were gays then they(Jawahar Lal or Lord Mountbatten) cannot have any relationship with Lord Mountbatten's wife.
It is triangular in only one direction.i.e from jawahar-to - Miss Mountbatten-- to Lord Mountbatten .

But Jawahar Lal may have briefly become a Gay in the later part of his life possibly implementing it with the Chinese Premier Mao-Tse Tung i.e the famous Indi-Chini Bhai Bhai which ended up in Mao giving a hard kick in Jawahar Lal's back and Jawahar Lal becoming a normal human again after the kick.

sufi
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 06/30/04 at 20:46:33 »

[quote author=Amitav link=board=0011&num=1086182370&start=0#12 date=06/06/04 at 17:08:09]
Hi all,
The best solution will be to encourage the lower caste people to follow the example of the great Babasaheb Amberkar and convert to Buddhism which is is much better alternative then the outside religion(Islam and Christianity).

[/quote]

Who the fuk are you? 'convert to a better alternative than Islam and Christianity' -- how dare you say so? We stay in a secular country. If u sick fuk think like that, better leave the country ..

thepoint.
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/05/04 at 02:29:09 »

whoever you guys you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. All these ruomors and such are really not the point. The fact is that Nehru was an extremely able administrator. He was learned and had actually studied the history of India.
Understand that politics is the art of successful public administration and should not have anything to do with social engineering. What caste creed or color or social persuasion you have has absolultey nothing to with how well you develop public institutions or deliver services to the people or then allocate resources most efficiency. Public administration is a proffesional job not one for people interested in ressurecting the ghosts of the past. This is not a new western concept, read Chanakya arthashastra probably the first constitution ever written in the world. The word ARTHA as you all know means money in its direct form but more largely it means economics. My point is for all of you out there and it is this

STOP THINKING OF POLITICIANS AS INSTRUMENTS OF SOCIAL AND CULTURAL CHANGE. IT IS A DISTRACTION. CONCENTRATE ON WETHER THE ROADS IN YOU AREA ARE GOOD, DO THE SCHOOLS WORK, ARE THE HOSPITALS WELL STAFFED AND STOCKED. THAT IS WHAT THIS ELECTION HAS CLEARLY MADE APPARENT. IT DOES NOT MATTER TO THE VAST MASSES OF IMPOVERISHED HUMANITY IN THE COUNTRY. THEY REALLY COULD DO NOT CARE WHERE A TEMPLE STOOD FIVE HUNDRED YEARS AGO OR HOW MUSLIMS DIVORCE EACH OTHER OR ANY OTHER SOCIAL ISSUE. YOU SEE MY DEAR EDUCATED FREINDS THEY ARE ALL HALF CLAD IN TORN CLOTHES THEY LIVE IN DILAPIDATED MUD HOUSES THEIR CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE SCHOOLS TO GO TO AND THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH FOOD SOME ESTIMATES SAY THAT 45% OF INDIAN CHILDREN ARE MALNOURISHED. THINK OF A FATHER COMING HOME AFTER TOILING IN THE HOT SUN ALL DAY HE LOOKS AT HIS DAUGHTER AND ASKS HER TO GO TO BED, THERE WILL BE DINNER TONIGHT. NOW IF YOU ASK HIM "SIR DO KNOW THAT RAJIV WAS THE SON OF A GROCER" HE WOULD TELL YOU TO GET YOUR YOU BUTT OUT OF HIS HOUSE HE DOES NOT GIVE SHIT. THIS IS WHERE THE BJP FAILED. THEY COMPLETELY MISREAD WHAT THE PROBLEM PLAGUING THE COUNTRY IS. MAKE SURE ALL YOUR CITIZENS ARE WELL FED AND WELL PROVIDED FOR FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU CAN HAVE YOUR BLOODY TEMPLE AFTER THAT NOONE WILL EVEN BLINK. IN FACT THE MUSLIMS WILL PROBABLY GLADLY MAKE THAT TRADE.
Going back to Nehru.
he is the single reason India today has a chance to improve its position in the world. Look all across the world of all the countries that threw off the shackles of slavery in the middle of the last century. none of them have any viable governmental institution (courts, elected decision making bodies, etc) look at our neighbors, bangladesh is one of the poorest countries in the world, Pakistan is the single biggest threat to the world and burma is ruled by cruel military junta. Africa is a mess, countries like nigeria thought they are almist floating on oil have voice in the world. We have viable govenrment institutions although a imperfect ones, our country somehow works, IT DOES,. this is because the first few years of any nascent new born nation are absolutely crucial, if the leaders at that point do not commit to the democratic process then all systems disintergrtate into chaos. nehru understood this and commited himself to the process, and that is why india isa viable country today. every institution that is pushing india forward is of Nehrus making. take the ITTs for example that was nehrus baby. a lot has been said about the amount of english spoken by the elite and that nehru was an anglophile, this is true. but had we not had these people fluent in this foriegn language bangalore and hyderbad would still have been a one horse town.

anti-sufi
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/05/04 at 19:18:51 »

Hi Sufi,
You want bloody secularism because you are staying in a Hindu majority country. Every knows it very well that the moment you katlus turn majority by Multiple Production through Multiple wives ,you will start demanding for turning our country into an animal-stan(read Islam-Stan) or merger with pakistan.
Show a single Muslim majority country where non-muslims show the power you people show in India.
But any way dont worry we will take care of your population explosion as privatisation is going on in full swing and your people are in no way proportionately represented in the IT or BT industry thriving in India and by God's grace you will not be represented in any of the up coming industry like Automobile etc provided one condition that you are taught only to read and write Koran in your schools like you are doing now along with good chapters like Jehad etc.
And we will wait for and occasionally enjoy Lolipops in the form of Israt Jahan gunned down by Gujrat Police.

thepoint
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/06/04 at 07:03:46 »

You are a very scary person and your words drip and stink of hatred, you to me represent everything that is devastating in human nature, The language you are using to describe your fellow human beings just because they pray differently is truly terrifying. A lot of people think a lot of angry things, but you are actually recording it in a public forum!!!!! This tells me how advanced your dysfunction is. Please seek help immediately my freind, normal people are good and do not harbor such depth of ill will. They might not like a lot of things about a lot of people god knows there are things that really bother me about the way the world is. but you are on a dangerous edge. You should undestand that it really not a safe place for you to be

smile
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/06/04 at 14:31:30 »

No need to be a "Secularist". Just be human that will solve all the problems.

So much of talks but no solution.

anti-sufi
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Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/06/04 at 17:50:16 »

Hi 'thepoint',
I am not sure in world you are staying now,but post 9/11 the world has been made the most dangerous place by the so-called people for whom you are speaking .
Frankly speaking this world can become a really safe place if we find some cheap substitute for oil because that will spoil the power of these so-called innocent people who are making this world a very dangerous place to stay.

thepoint
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/07/04 at 07:42:16 »

My dear Gordhob das "anti-sufi, you are so misgiuded it is almost amusing. As for "wheech phart auf the warld I am staying" I stay in New York City, and i saw the enormity of it all with my own two eyes, so dont "post 911 me" . As always you seem to miss the point.
Dont you see that you have become the very thing you so very much hate? let me explain. You from what I deduce seem to bear a particular deep dislike for a certain religious community. I further deduce that you hate them because of their extreme ideological bent and their "we are better than everyone else" attitude. However what is extremly comical is the fact that you react to this extremeism in the exact same way. So tell me my friend that how are you and your attitudes in any way shape or form better than those you hate and so despise. You see TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT.

anti-the point
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/07/04 at 21:00:10 »

My dear 'Katlu Alam' or 'the point',
I am not concerned about your bull shit argument that you are staying near point zero or in some bull shit place like Dacca.
I just wanted to drive the point to you that animals like LeT,JeMs whom you show back door support in the form of Human rights protection and other junk ways are in no way comparable to patriotic Organizations like RSS (whom I support full hearted fully).

2 worngs dont make a thing right.
Do you mean if LeT kills our pandit brothers in J&K,we should deal with them in Kid gloves or if some animals burn Hindu pligrims in train,we should only keep quiet and protest.
Just c how the Muslims in Gujarat stay now.
where even the Mullah there will ask his fellow muslims not to entertain any stranger muslim(referring to Let or JeM) for fear of the Gujarat police who did an excellent Job recently by finishing Israt jahan (whom you refer to as an innocent student).

India
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/09/04 at 15:47:18 »

Any body not speaking the language of Sangh Parivar is surely a Muslim !!

Stay awake with this notion and keep this idea 'shinning'. This is one of the reason your Sangh Ideology is kicked out of power today. You were too arrogant to think that each and every Hindu shares your bloody concept of fundamentalism and hatered. Try to forcefully convert every opposition to Islam and see the silent mandate.

For India
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/09/04 at 18:13:33 »

Hi India,
Just a gentle reminder that the mandate this time was a fractured one and which ended up in a oppurtunitic alliance(UPA) between Leftist and Congress which will collapse under its own weight.
The Sangh parivar didnt play its Hindutva Ideology and was one fo the reasons for getting lower number of seats .
As an example One can look at the stock market in Bombay to understand who manages the economy better .

I am waiting when this govt will Withdraw POTA and release some LeT's from Jail and see the Havoc they create which will automatically swing the public opinion in favour of Sangh parivar.

Well another thing is if some Hindu(like Lallu was doing) supports Israt Jahan(the Mumbai student killed in encounter with Gujarat Police).
Then There is no difference between such Hindus and LeT.

bravo
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/11/04 at 01:37:56 »

well said India Well said.
I am happy to see that there are other sensible people out there and this lunatic who keeps running his mouth dripping hatred is just a fringe minorty element. If ABV LKA were to read some of what this idiot blabbers on they would be indeed very ashamed. If you have some time read the hilarious article on page one of this post. Its a very good work of fiction I think what its trying to say is that nehru and indira are actually muslims disgused as hindus. Its really quite amusing

anti- bravo
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 07/11/04 at 16:47:10 »

Hi Bravo alias 'the point' ,
The thought or religion to which you subscribe to
are indeed truely Lunatic in nature.
One smal example your compatriot 'MOhammed Atta' who drove the flight to WTC belonged to a very rich family and it is because of the Lunatic religion or thought that he has decided to sacrifice his valuable life.
Now I know you will say that you don't subscribe to the extreme views of both Hindus and Muslims .

Fine then tell why do you keep quiet when Kaskmiri pandits were driven away from their own country .
If you were one of the kashmiri pandits ,then you would have a 100 percent subscriber of my views and would have licked my A**.

If you a indeed a Hindu Secularist then try to answer honestly the 23 questions at the beignning of the topic raised by Nitaipal.

Bye for today

Salman Hanif
Guest

answer of que
«on: 10/03/04 at 02:09:21 »

Dear Sir,
Your Q no.
5. Show one Mullah or Maulvi who has declared a 'fatwa' against terrorists
Yes i found in in Gulf all Arab Countries Maulavi in their Lacture " Quatba " "fatwa" they mention against of terrorists & they say killers are not muslims because islam don't permit anyone to kill other, for your kind information.
Thanks for Questioning.

Salman Hanif
Guest

answer of que
«on: 10/03/04 at 02:41:47 »

Dear Sir,
Your Q no.
7. Today Hindus are 85%. If Hindus are intolerant, how come Masjids and Madrassas are thriving? How come Muslims are offering Namaz on the road? How come Muslims are proclaiming 5 times a day on loudspeakers that there is no God except Allah?

Hindustan is Secular Country & time of making Hindustan the Hindustan maker's welcome all community & say everyone have same wright. Sycologist says we should welcome all riligious people & religious activities because they only can bring peace in the world & kill the negligency between human.
Muslims praying on road because they don't have enough space to pray. They don't mean to dishturb other's & they respect their God & they feel if they do religious work it will help them to send them to Jannath ( Shorg ) after they die.
In islam dishturbing others is also like a crime & no one allowed to do this at any cost.
Also all community there is some way to call others & i don't think its a crime. If its a crime it should be for all because we all have same wright we accept it when we make partishon & if its a metter of power. You see the history no power is staying for ever & the only powerfull is God,Bhogoban,Allah.
Leave all the feeling & do something good for the society which can give you some satisfaction in this world & after you die people will remember you as a good person, good society maker. World is small & we all are guest for a few days in the world . So, Why to fight & for what.
Do good work otherwise no one will remember you after you die.
There is good & bed people in every community & for a particular person or group you can't hate all the community.
Friendly we can discuss the things which dishturb the entire society & for that fighting is not the way only education & the friendship is the way to solv the problem.
I hope it will tauch your maximum questions answer.

Thanks for Questioning.

guest
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 10/03/04 at 06:13:44 »

Salman bhai,
your writing is clear and to the point. it seems that you have a moderate view to the world affairs. This is the right time for the progressive minded muslims to open up their mouth and fight against the fanatism. Though so called secularists will cry foul, it is a fact that islamic jehadis are posing the greatest danger to the world. It is also a fact the questions raised by nitai pil carries some weight. This is very much true that no religion teaches hatred and there are good and bad people in all societies. Unfortunately at present terorrists in the name of religion are existing in islam only and in no other faith. This should be a matter of concern not only for the people belonging to other faiths, but also to the people of islamic faith, becuse islam is basically preaches peace. Muslims should do some introspection to find why more and more youths of this religion of peace are turning violent and inhuman. The war against terrorisom will not succeed untill moderate muslims gather enough courage to counter fanatism.

guest
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 10/03/04 at 06:28:21 »

Salman bhai,
your writing is clear and to the point. It seems that you have a moderate view of the world affairs. This is the right time for the progressive minded muslims to open up their mouth and fight against the fanatism. Though so called secularists will cry foul, it is a fact that islamic jehadis are posing the greatest danger to the world. It is also a fact that the questions raised by nitai pil carries some weight (you may not agree). This is very much true that no religion teaches hatred and there are good and bad people in all societies. Unfortunately, at present terorrists in the name of religion are existing in the followers (?) of islam only and in no other faith. This should be a matter of concern not only for the people belonging to other faiths, but also to the people of islamic faith, becuse islam basically preaches peace. Muslims should do some introspection to find why more and more youths of this religion of peace are turning violent and inhuman. It should also be a matter of concern that democracy is almost absent in the muslim wold countries. It is muslims themselves who need to fight for their right and democracy and it can be imposed by any outside power (as in Iraq). The war against terrorisom will not succeed untill moderate muslims gather enough courage to counter fanatism in the name of islam.

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 10/10/04 at 00:25:20 »

Obviously, secular religion is the not answer to all the problems we are facing in this world. Those people with very high consciousness understand the value of humanity. Forcing the less educated people into different faith and belief (dogma) means a seed of discontent in the future. The best answer is to analyze yourself and within yourself first in order to understand fully why you are here in this world. Then and then, you will be able to view/evaluate the different faiths with an open mind and without prejudice or oneside indulgence. I hope the present problems in the Arab world will teach us that living with and understanding the people of different background and faiths is the way to keep us together and to safeguard it against those people influenced by the wrong or distorted ideas and myths. Saudi Arabia was
probably responsible for all the chaos and trouble, because it funnelled millions of dollars into the islamic charities, which the fanatic factions took advantage of and started terroring the innocent people worldwide. Second, Pakistan and Bangladesh said their countries should remain the islamic states forever. How dare they utter something like this knowing non-islamic people love living peasefully side by side with the islamic people! I hope their unilateral decision about being islamic state will negatively affect millions of muslim people living peacefully in India.

Salman Hanif
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 10/26/04 at 16:41:48 »

What is Jihad the arabic word mean & what is Jihadi.
Jihad means teaching the people Islamic advantages by activity not by fighting & those who do this is called Jihadi. Some people fight for own advantage & says we are Jihadi , actually they are not Jihadi & they are Criminals & they fight for own benifit money,land,power etc.
Actually mostly fighters you will find from Some places & they are famous for crime in their own area. Mostly terrorist if you find Pakistani means you can't blame muslims because Pakistani maximum people are criminal. They do all criminal things & say it is good & halal. They are the most selfish people in the world & for their own benifit they can kill anybody easily & they called its good means halal. They do all the crime but they have a big bear ( Dhari & Toki ) & white cap on had & tasbi in hand also & its not the way of islam . Islam not allow anybody to do any mistake & if someone is really muslim he can't do crime. If someone do any crime with big bear,white cap & tosbi in hand ( Lomba Dhari, Toki Mathay abong hate Tosbi ) Pls, don't say it is muslim. Say it is a criminal .
About Bangladehsi what to say. They are really very poor & will be poor for ever for general knowledge , they don't have food or doing very small labour job & paying monthly fees to the political parties can you believe. If someone seek need to admit in hospital or need to admit in school , college for studies they need to mention from which political parties they are. All school , colleges full of politics & result is , if someone master degree holder from Bangladesh & come for a job in other countries they will get a job which can be done by a school pass student & also their salary will be like a labour salary. They do all Low labour jobs in all over the world & all low lavel crime all over the world . All this did not mentioned in Islam & for that You can't blame Islam.
You ask any Bangladehsi about the Politics he will give you full details & if you say his leader is not good he may kill you, they are famous for this type of fighting. But if you ask him about Islam he don't know somany thing as he know about his political leader. Is it Islam.
Islam has its own way of living. How to seat,eat,talk,respect, how to sleep,how to walk, how to do job, how to respect others , how to respect nation, how to earn money, how to donate poors. Everything mentions in Islam to build a good Human, Society, Culture , Nation & World. Islam doesn't allow any crime.
I request everybody Don't blame Islam for the Killers,Criminals or Selfish People. If any crime happens find out the criminal & punish him & don't punish or blame total Muslims. I respect all the Human & all Religion because no Religion allow to do any Criminal job.

guest
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 10/29/04 at 21:25:58 »

Mr.Hanif,
I read thru your argument. I would like to answer it in two parts. One the socio-economic and political scenario and other about the good things in Islam.
For any unknown/known reason both the rich and the poor nations of the Islamic world exhibits a peculiar restrictive bend of mind which is the main cause of intolerance towards others. So first thing necessary is the education without any flavour of religion in it. As per the last cencus record the percentage of woman literacy amongst the muslims in India is also low, even if the urban population is considered-- leave alone Bangladesh. Why?
The answer may lie in the bend of mind created due to too much inclination towards religious dictums. So there comes a crucial question as to what may be there in the religious teaching that deviates one's mind from the apparently logical scenario.
This lead to the last para of your statement. The goodies in Islam. All that you have mentioned i.e
" Islam has its own way of living. How to seat,eat,talk,respect, how to sleep,how to walk, how to do job, how to respect others , how to respect nation, how to earn money, how to donate poors. Everything mentions in Islam to build a good Human, Society, Culture , Nation & World. Islam doesn't allow any crime.
I request everybody Don't blame Islam for the Killers,Criminals or Selfish People. If any crime happens find out the criminal & punish him & don't punish or blame total Muslims. I respect all the Human & all Religion because no Religion allow to do any Criminal job"

is not digestable. Because in Hadish, it is clearly mentioned to do the above mentioned things but only to muslims and not to the "Kafirs" -- the non believebers of Islam. In that very reverred book itself it is mentioned that kill kafirs,rape kafirs, loot property of kafirs, arsen properties of kafirs and you will be treated with all goodies in Heaven, one of them being served wine by hoors( mind you, alcholic beverage is bend in Islam). What ever you do you have to give 6% to the Prophet or Allah. Also it is mentioned that true peace can only be there if the world is totally Islamic.
So after all this in the reverred "Hadish" how can you make your last comment about criminality in Islam is not understandable to me. I would appreciate if you can throw some light on the subject and enlighten us.

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 11/06/04 at 06:52:59 »

Reaching the goal of making the world become islam will never happen without understanding the different faiths and religions because God premeates everywhere and watches us in every steps we are taking (right or wrong). One thing that everybody is very familiar with is "You must learn how to love your neighbors regardless of caste, colors, religions, handicaps, cultures and more." This is why Mahtma Gandhi was so famous worldwide. Inspite of being a Christian, Martin Luther King Jr. was the follower of Gandhi, and struggled so hard to free his people for slavery and poverty. Likewise, the people in Tibbet are nowadays struggling to free themsleves from the Chinese oppression. This is a lesson we will never forget. Tolerance, virtue, moral responsibility towards human beings, compassion and selfless service and the like can only bring the people from walk of life into harmony.

Salman Hanif
Guest

Re: Are you a real .........
«on: 11/07/04 at 14:56:52 »

You wrote earlier,
is not digestable. Because in Hadish, it is clearly mentioned to do the above mentioned things but only to muslims and not to the "Kafirs" -- the non believebers of Islam. In that very reverred book itself it is mentioned that kill kafirs,rape kafirs, loot property of kafirs, arsen properties of kafirs and you will be treated with all goodies in Heaven, one of them being served wine by hoors( mind you, alcholic beverage is bend in Islam). What ever you do you have to give 6% to the Prophet or Allah. Also it is mentioned that true peace can only be there if the world is totally Islamic.
Actually i never seen or read about this things in Hadis. May be i don't have enough knowladge or may be i didn't pass through that page .Pls, kindly mention me the page number or peragh number.
I know in Islam we can't say Kafir to anybody also its haram & its writen in Hadis how can Islam allow killing,raping,looting. Islam allow only save yourself from injustice , criminals , illligel things.
Thanks
Times of UK

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 11/13/04 at 03:02:56 »

I see too many doctroines within islam thinkings/teachings, which are why there are so many warlords wagging wars in the history. We should foresake the old thinkings, take the contempoaray/inspring examples in the present world and guide the young generations, which will become good citizens not only in the arab world, but in the western/eastern worlds as well. It's sad that Talibalism or Al Quaedaism is probably the by-product of the islam doctrines (or dogmas).

socialist
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 02/05/05 at 11:42:42 »

This is a very fiery topic guys.

Nitiapil, has touched on some of the things, which are true. If India is democratic, then, it should run all legal institutions on democratic principles (ie. civil courts).

Inequality creates an unbalanced society which results in frictions & tensions. It is not a question of relgious principles, but more of social attitudes, economy, legal procedures and polities of a nation that determine its humanity. Western nations for instance, have Hindu - Muslim and other denominations living side by side without any hindrance, due to the fact that all of the above factors are at play. ???

Today, I watched Star news, reporting on the use of loud-speaker at a mosque near the Bihar SC. The noise disturbs the business of SC so the Maulana (or eqiv) was ordered to remove it. This order has created such a chaos and Muslim leaders are refuting it as they see it a threat to their religion. :'(

I am not saying this b'cos it was ordered on a mosque but I have the same opinion which ever religious group it was. In India every occasion is so noisy that it disturbs everybody. Be it 'Azaan' or any 'Puja'. It seems that disturbing others has become the norm of the society. If the loud-speakers were removed as ordered, surely, this would prove Islam to be a peace loving - law abiding religion, and gain respect from all.
???
Now, if this was in Uk for instance, the loud-speakers would have been taken down and if appropriate permission to pray near SC would have been revoked, one would not be able do anything about it, except, appeal to the court where it is likely they would loose. Because in western society the law is above all!!!!!!!

The sort chaos and violence seen in Bihar is just so feudal.

India can never be a secular country. Its pluralistic nature and ethnic disparities will hinder to create a just, balanced, law-abiding society. Further, obstructed by political up-heavals. :( :( :( Sham............................E :( :( :(

sidney
Guest

Re: Are you a Secularist? Then please answer these
«on: 02/09/05 at 08:08:34 »

Many Islamic countries are secularist, rejecting other religions as equal basis. The western countries are treating the islamic people living in foreign lands as equal with their own people, thus respecting their freedom of expression. However, with the shadow of the 9/11 aftereffect still hovering over our heads, the western world sees them the different way because the terrorist netoworks still exist. Unless the terrorist backbone is broken, the mastermind is hunted down and we see Iraq not willing to return to the age of oppression or totalitaranism, we do not know if democracy will prevail in the seculiarist countries.

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